Obama Not U.S.-Born Citizen?

[Z]

For a while now, there has been heavy speculation as to whether or not Obama is a U.S.-born citizen. The Obama camp has stated that he was born in Hawaii but now, more and more, evidence is piling up to suggest otherwise and no one is really sure what do to.

The Electoral College votes on December 12th and they're trying to figure out real quick what needs to be done before then.

First of all, Obama has refused and continues to refuse to give out his vault birth certificate. Instead, he is only showing the press and others a Certificate of Live Birth which is a different document altogether. For one, a birth certificate will have an identifiable footprint as well as the doctors name, the parents' names, the hospital, etc whereas a certificate of live birth is less identifiable.

http://www.obamacrimes.com

^ At this website, a graphic expert claims that the Certificate of Live Birth itself is fraudulent and points out several graphic inconsistencies with it. There is a video on the main page that you can view where he points them all out.

Additionally, Obama's own grandmother and half-siblings all say he was born in Kenya:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/3074
According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama.
Additionally, Berg has filed a pending lawsuit against Obama for this very reason.

There is a lot to the lawsuit that can be seen most in the ObamaCrimes website if anyone is interested in looking. Personally, I have no idea for certain if he is a natural-born American but it does seem strange that he won't give out his definitive vault birth certificate that would settle any and all doubts.

There is also talk that if it does turn out that Obama is inelligible, will the government do anything about it? Some say they won't becuase of the public risk (They rioted during the Rodney King situation, they rioted in Chicago over a sports game, so many assume a revoking of Obama after him being successful in the general election would cause a massive backlash) and therefore they may decide to overlook it for the first term just for the sake of public safety.

I dunno. I'm sure time will tell, though. If not this year then it certainly will tell 4 years from now.

[SpaceProg]

If he really turns out to be from Kenya and they let him be President anyway... that sets precedence so...

Roll on President Schwarzenegger!

That would kick seven shades of ass right there...

[Arainach]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-birth-certificate-30-oct30,0,1742172.story
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/has_obamas_birth_certificate_been_disclosed.html
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081031/BREAKING01/81031064/0/BREAKING04

There is no difference between a certificate of live birth and a birth certificate. They're both as legally valid. Obama has given the press a certified Hawaii birth certificate; these claims have no merit.

[SpaceProg]

Darn... I was looking forward to President Ahnold. :(

[Z]

We'll see how the lawsuit goes, I guess. The second part of it is that Obama may not have claimed US citizenship when he was adopted by an Indonesian man and had his citizenship changed to Indonesia without retaining duel citizenship or something *shrugs*

In any case, if he was born in the US, it's weird that his own family claims to have seen the birth in Kenya. It's also strange that this is all coming from Berg, a Democrat.

[deathofcheese]

That would suck, but I'm all for kicking him out if it turns out that he isn't natural-born. Uploding the Constitution liek wut.

For the purposes of educating those that think they know something about being considered an American citizen at birth, here is how I understand it. When I was in JROTC in high school, it was taught to us that there are two law or principles the determine citizenship at birth: jus sanguinis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_Sanguinis)and jus soli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli), literally, "right of blood" and "right of soil". Essentially, if you are born to parents where one or both is a full American citizen, then you are an American citizen by blood. Additionally, if you are born on American soil, be it actual soil (somewhere within the boundaries of America, including Hawaii and Alaska) or legal soil (military base or embassy or the like), then you're an American citizen, regardless if your parents were full citizens. There's also an article on Wikipedia all about U.S. nationality law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law).

[Bloodcinder]

His mother was a US citizen. At birth, he acquired citizenship. Paper is irrelevant.

[Z]

Good point -- Given that, you'd think the case would be thrown out at discovery.

[Seegtease]

He doesn't have a birth certificate. The Antichrist was spawned, fools!

[Killer_Man_]

Indeed, but as well I thought the consitution as well stated that even if you were born in Kenya. If one of your parents are American, you are an American too.

Cause I remember in American Gov't class that say a couple had gone to visit say Great Britain for whatever reason. If they give birth to their child there, the child is still a American Citizen. Or even if I were to go off and marry say a Great Britain woman. Techincally if I remember she is an American citizen and as well any children we produce.

[Seegtease]

I love the swap to first-person, KM. Got a fantasy?

[Killer_Man_]

I love the swap to first-person, KM. Got a fantasy?

What does my fantasies have to do with the subject? Get on topic.

[Arainach]

Indeed, but as well I thought the consitution as well stated that even if you were born in Kenya. If one of your parents are American, you are an American too.

Cause I remember in American Gov't class that say a couple had gone to visit say Great Britain for whatever reason. If they give birth to their child there, the child is still a American Citizen. Or even if I were to go off and marry say a Great Britain woman. Techincally if I remember she is an American citizen and as well any children we produce.Constitution doesn't say jack shit about what "natural born" means, which is the only way a court case could be potentially interesting. Either way, all known legal evidence indicates that there is no merit whatsoever to these claims; if it wasn't for the fact that Clarence Thomas is a douchebag (http://www.freep.com/article/20081203/NEWS15/81203128/1215), all such claims would have gone away a looong time ago.

[Gio Takahashi]

These are the way to be born as US citizen: (taken from wiki article)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law)
*Birth within the United States
*Through Birth abroad to two United States Citizens
*Through birth abroad to one United States citizen (though this applies if the person is born after 11/14/1986)

[Bloodcinder]

*Through birth abroad to one United States citizen (though this applies if the person is born after 11/14/1986)
You're a little mistaken on this one.
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.
The Wiki article is misleading. It applies before 1986, just with different requirements.

[Z]

We'll find out tomorrow whether or not the Supreme Court decides to take the case. Everyone seems to be predicting a loss but if the Supreme Court even decides to take it up, I think they have a fair chance of winning because, otherwise, it would be killed in discovery like I said before, I think.

[chefTENGU]

For one, a birth certificate will have an identifiable footprint as well as the doctors name, the parents' names, the hospital, etc whereas a certificate of live birth is less identifiable.
My birth certificate does not list any of the things you mention. Just my name, date of birth, date of record, date of certificate issue, and certificate number.

The hospital and registrar are mentioned in the letterhead.

I think one of the links Ary posted summed this one up pretty well: if there was any shred of merit to this accusation, it would have come up long, long ago. Probably when Obama was first running for senate in Illinois, or at least during the primary season.

[Z]

It should come with extra forms, then. In some cases, they attach your actual identification information (with prints, weight, etc.) on a separate statistics sheet like the following:

First Example (http://www.chrisbenitezmemorial.com/pictures/footprints.jpg) (Link)

Second Example
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x105/ShatteredCovenant/42-16395015.jpg

In any case, it should come with all that identifying information.

As far as when this came up,it's been going for a while. It's just now getting renewed attention because it's up for Supreme Court reconsideration. Even McCain's citizenship was challenged for a while.

[Arainach]

Mine definitely doesn't have a footprint, and that's not in the national example birth certificate either.

Oh, and:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_certificate#Birth_certificates_in_the_United _States

In the U.S. vital statistics is a state function, because it is not a power assigned by the constitution to the federal government. Nonetheless, the federal and state governments have cooperated to improve vital statistics. From 1900 to 1946 the U.S. Census Bureau designed standard birth certificates, collected vital statistics on a national basis, and generally sought to improve the accuracy of vital statistics. In 1946 that responsibility was passed to the U.S. Public Health Service. Unlike the British system of recording all births in "registers", the states file an individual document for each and every birth. In most states, this document was, and still is, entitled a "Certificate of Live Birth".A "Certificate of Live Birth" is a birth certificate.

[Seegtease]

Still, his refusal to show his birth certificate, which could clear things up quickly and painlessly, is rather odd. It's as if he has something to hide on it. It's not like it contains any personal information that could incriminate him... unless it says he was born in another country.

[Arainach]

Zeit, I'm not sure what part you don't get:

HE'S SHOWN HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE. A certificate of live birth is an official birth certificate. It's been released to the press, it's been certified by the State of Hawaii, and I DO NOT GET WHAT THE HELL MORE YOU WANT.

[SpaceProg]

We want... Your liberal soul.

[Gerrymander]

Silly SpaceProg, liberals don't have souls. It's why we're so prone to godlessness and communism.

[Arainach]

He speaks the truth. If I ever had a soul, I lost it so long ago I can't remember it.

[SpaceProg]

Darn. Guess I'm going to have to eat BC's soul again. Though it's been tainted with gay. Eh well, I can stand a bit of fruity aftertaste. *Goes after BC*

[Seegtease]

Sheesh, Ary, chill. I don't want anything, and I never said he wasn't a citizen. Heck, I don't really even care if he is a citizen or not, and I think them harassing him as a last ditch effort to get him out of office is kind of lame. I was just going by what Z posted:

First of all, Obama has refused and continues to refuse to give out his vault birth certificate.

Whether it's the same document or not is not the point. The point I was making is that he is, if this is true, refusing to show his vault birth certificate.

My question is: why? It would apparently make some people happy, so why would he not just show it? If it says all the same things as the document he provided, why would he not appease the people scrutinizing him by just showing this other document?

[Arainach]

Because he's already given more than enough evidence, and there's a lot to be said for privacy. Do you give in to every mundane request anyone makes of you? If someone said "I bet he's not 21", would you give in to their request for a birth certificate or just show them your driver's license and tell them to go away?

[Seegtease]

If they were going to try to take me to court for it, yes, I'd rather not the hassle of that process. My birth certificate has nothing I consider private on it that my ID doesn't already have. Thing is, I'm sure Obama has better things to do, which is why it seems like he'd like to get dumb stuff out of his way quickly.

[Z]

The Supreme Court has decided not to hear the case:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081208/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_obama


Court won't review Obama's eligibility to serve

WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court has turned down an emergency appeal from a New Jersey man who says President-elect Barack Obama is ineligible to be president because he was a British subject at birth.

The court did not comment on its order Monday rejecting the call by Leo Donofrio of East Brunswick, N.J., to intervene in the presidential election.

[chefTENGU]

Now the Brits' nefarious plot to re-establish hegemony over North America can continue!

(sorry, I just find it amusing that he would technically be a subject of the British Empire if he had been born in Kenya)

[Z]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104009

Bombshell: Orders revoked for soldier challenging prez
Major victory for Army warrior questioning Obama's birthplace

A U.S. Army Reserve major from Florida scheduled to report for deployment to Afghanistan within days has had his military orders revoked after arguing he should not be required to serve under a president who has not proven his eligibility for office.

His attorney, Orly Taitz, confirmed to WND the military has rescinded his impending deployment orders.

"We won! We won before we even arrived," she said with excitement. "It means that the military has nothing to show for Obama. It means that the military has directly responded by saying Obama is illegitimate – and they cannot fight it. Therefore, they are revoking the order!"

She continued, "They just said, 'Order revoked.' No explanation. No reasons – just revoked."

A hearing on the questions raised by Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook, an engineer who told WND he wants to serve his country in Afghanistan, was scheduled for July 16 at 9:30 a.m.

"As an officer in the armed forces of the United States, it is [my] duty to gain clarification on any order we may believe illegal. With that said, if President Obama is found not to be a 'natural-born citizen,' he is not eligible to be commander-in-chief," he told WND only hours after the case was filed.

"[Then] any order coming out of the presidency or his chain of command is illegal. Should I deploy, I would essentially be following an illegal [order]. If I happened to be captured by the enemy in a foreign land, I would not be privy to the Geneva Convention protections," he said.

The order for the hearing in the federal court for the Middle District of Georgia from U.S. District Judge Clay D. Land said the hearing on the request for a temporary restraining order would be held Thursday.

Cook said without a legitimate president as commander-in-chief, members of the U.S. military in overseas actions could be determined to be "war criminals and subject to prosecution."

He said the vast array of information about Obama that is not available to the public confirms to him "something is amiss." There's more of the article at the link.

I'm not going to be quick to assume that Obama is an illegitimate citizen (though I have voiced my suspicions before) but this is quite an odd reaction that could only spread suspicion even moreso than before.

I'm not sure why the Obama administration (or the military) would surrender in this fight and revoke the deployment orders. I mean, what's to stop others from refusing to serve based on the same terms? They've created a dangerous precedent with this, I believe.

[Killer_Man_]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

[Z]

^ Not what I'm talking about, presently (Ary already cited that site in Post #3).

I'm talking about the reaction of revoking the deployment.

[deathofcheese]

They probably thought it wise not to get involved with someone who's quickly gaining reputation as a loudmouth. Although I don't know what the deal is, I'm not sure it's Obama's choice to remain in Afghanistan and I'm pretty sure he didn't order any redeployments there personally.

[Gio Takahashi]

all this does it to just make me facepalm and say "Not this again."

[Killer_Man_]

^ Not what I'm talking about, presently (Ary already cited that site in Post #3).

I'm talking about the reaction of revoking the deployment.

I did not know but actually my real post is, I thought they threw out the cases against Obama about not being a citizen.

Regardless, there is going to be shit hitting the fan quite soon.

(Was going to put Airplane! Crap thrown into the fan scene but I can't find a movie of it.)

[Z]

It may very well be that Obama is a natural born citizen and that the revoking of deployment was just a means of shushing the argument, but I can't imagine how that'd be an effective means.

It should be noted that the site that's sourced is definitely a biased site who has hoped to prove Obama is illegitimate for a while now so we may have to see if the story, itself, is legitimate in the way it's being presented.

In the article, they claim that there was no reason given for the revoke but that hardly seems likely.

[She continued, "They just said, 'Order revoked.' No explanation. No reasons – just revoked."]

Generally, I would think you'd at least get some papers or something to show that the orders have been formerly revoked. By the article's claim, they act as if there wasn't, which seems a bit fishy.

[deathofcheese]

Maybe they just revoked his orders to court martial and dishonorably discharge him for being so publicly against the commander-in-chief.

[chefTENGU]

Generally, I would think you'd at least get some papers or something to show that the orders have been formerly revoked. By the article's claim, they act as if there wasn't, which seems a bit fishy.
We're talking about the military here. They don't owe an explanation to anyone but the president, and they often don't bother to reveal their intentions or motivations to soldiers or family members.

All this indicates is that people who really want to believe something will go to whatever lengths it takes to maintain that belief, no matter how unreasonable that belief might be.

[Arainach]

I'm not sure why the Obama administration (or the military) would surrender in this fight and revoke the deployment orders. I mean, what's to stop others from refusing to serve based on the same terms? They've created a dangerous precedent with this, I believe. Why bother deploying a known trouble-maker? Our reserves aren't THAT desperate yet.

To say nothing of the fact that I trust WND roughly as much as I trust your average tabloid. Less, really.

[chefTENGU]

The problem with this (and just about every other political topic ever in the history of mankind) is that civilized debate is impossible. You can't change someone's gut feelings through reasoning and logic (Aristotle lectured on this very subject), you have to make an emotional sort of gesture in order to get anywhere.

It doesn't matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, you're always going to have people doubting Obama's legitimacy for president just because they don't like him, if for no other reason.

[deathofcheese]

So I was watching The Daily Show last night and I noticed something peculiar about the attorney leading a new lawsuit to get Obama's "real" birth certificate revealed. Specifically, check out her name:

http://www.unitedempire.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=314

http://www.unitedempire.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=315

Whatever she was saying was instantly forgotten, replaced by me thinking of:
"Obama isn't US citizen, lol."
"ORLY?"
"YARLY. Also, yes."

[SpaceProg]

Come on... that's got to be photoshopped. Right? Nobody this day and age would have "Orly" as a name... would they? I'd change it if so...

[Gio Takahashi]

Nope. It's as real as it gets (http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/).

[Killer_Man_]

http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/natural_born_citizen.htm

I rofled at that movie.

But doing some research, all it says is being born to US citizens. It never says being born on US soil.

Unless Wiki lies.

[deathofcheese]

His mom was a U.S. citizen (covers law of blood), and he was born in Hawaii (covers law of land). Yep, sounds to me like it's covered. Even if he was born in Kenya, that still doesn't change the fact that his mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth, so he's still a "natural born citizen".

The fact is, there's no "definition" for "natural born citizen", so a lot of people throughout history have taken that to mean "born on US soil to US citizens". But that doesn't really mean that that's the only definition for it.

And no, those aren't photoshopped. They're screengrabs from a CNN recording. Besides, her website says so too.

[Arainach]

His mom was a U.S. citizen (covers law of blood), and he was born in Hawaii (covers law of land). Yep, sounds to me like it's covered. Even if he was born in Kenya, that still doesn't change the fact that his mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth, so he's still a "natural born citizen". That's not ENTIRELY true. To cover the law of blood, both parents have to be US citizens.

[chefTENGU]

Surprising as it is, Orly is an actual name.

That's not ENTIRELY true. To cover the law of blood, both parents have to be US citizens.
Truth. This is why John McCain was able to avoid a similar rumor mill, since he wasn't born within the US.

[deathofcheese]

Ah, I see.

[Sunflower]

I don't know much about this, but from what I heard, he never presented his original birth certificate, which is what kept people wondering. If that's what happened, why doesn't he just show it to those who don't believe them?

[SpaceProg]

I'm just glad my name isn't Orly.

[Arainach]

I don't know much about this, but from what I heard, he never presented his original birth certificate, which is what kept people wondering. If that's what happened, why doesn't he just show it to those who don't believe them?Except it's not what happened. He presented a legal birth certificate. We're just surrounded by people who feel entitled to accept only what evidence supports their pre-existing beliefs.

[chefTENGU]

I don't know much about this, but from what I heard, he never presented his original birth certificate, which is what kept people wondering. If that's what happened, why doesn't he just show it to those who don't believe them?
For the same reason Florida congressman Bill Posey won't submit to a DNA test to prove he's not part alligator.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/222213/march-19-2009/bill-posey-alligator-rumors

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/225628/april-23-2009/illegitimate-grandson-of-an-alligator


Here's the segment from The Daily Show that DoC mentioned earlier. It features a clip from CNN (at around 3:45) that provides all the unequivocal evidence you need to be certain that Obama was born in Hawaii and that these silly rumors are just that: silly.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identity

[Killer_Man_]

The only doubt I ever had back when it first started, the only reason I had a doubt, wasn't because I hated Obama(Hell I voted for him), was because I didn't want a non-American serving office.

Was because it didn't have a emboss seal/signature like mine did.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

I don't know if -this- website is legit but I Remember reading it back when I was googling stuff.

Apparently Hawaii is just silly nilly.

[chefTENGU]

The site you posted won a Pulitzer this year. I'd say it can probably be trusted.

Basically, the point of the whole thing is (and this is something that Ary touched on way back, I believe) is that there is absolutely no way for Obama to satisfy his detractors on this issue.

The sad truth is that no matter how much logic, fact, and evidence to the contrary you throw in their faces, they're always going to either ignore what you present to them or just find something else to complain about.

There's no way for Obama or anyone else to put this issue to rest by any action on their own. He already made his birth certificate available for everyone to see, and people are STILL trying to say it's either A) forged or B) somehow not a birth certificate for any number of inane reasons.

I'd say that at this point, the burden of proof rests with the opposition. Obama and his camp have made more than enough effort to stop this silly crap from continuing, but unfortunately, there's just no satisfying someone who is determined to fight you every step of the way. Either in politics, or in life in general.

[Killer_Man_]

The site you posted won a Pulitzer this year. I'd say it can probably be trusted.

Basically, the point of the whole thing is (and this is something that Ary touched on way back, I believe) is that there is absolutely no way for Obama to satisfy his detractors on this issue.

The sad truth is that no matter how much logic, fact, and evidence to the contrary you throw in their faces, they're always going to either ignore what you present to them or just find something else to complain about.

There's no way for Obama or anyone else to put this issue to rest by any action on their own. He already made his birth certificate available for everyone to see, and people are STILL trying to say it's either A) forged or B) somehow not a birth certificate for any number of inane reasons.

I'd say that at this point, the burden of proof rests with the opposition. Obama and his camp have made more than enough effort to stop this silly crap from continuing, but unfortunately, there's just no satisfying someone who is determined to fight you every step of the way. Either in politics, or in life in general.

Well the video I posted it before this link, they are saying he's not a US citizen by BLOOD. Because his father is black and from Kenya while his mother was white and from America.

It's just like I always said, actually Lenny who does a talk show about local stuff. Whose kinda like me, on the middle of the fence, and bitches about how stupid both parties are majority of the time.

"No matter how good one side does or the other. The opposite side will continue to whine."

I mean for god's sake, Obama could bring forth a utopian dream but yet Rush Limbaugh and the other radicals would still -complain.-

[chefTENGU]

Well the video I posted it before this link, they are saying he's not a US citizen by BLOOD. Because his father is black and from Kenya while his mother was white and from America.
Doesn't matter. He was most definitely born in the United States, which is sufficient to make him a natural American citizen and fully eligible to hold office.

Blood is supposed to be the way you get to be a citizen even if you're born abroad, since it would be, yanno, silly to not allow the child of two natural American citizens to be a citizen itself based solely on the question of geography.

People crying over this birth certificate business need to try and discredit the overwhelming evidence that Obama was actually born in the US, because unless they defeat that, they have absolutely no case whatsoever.

I mean for god's sake, Obama could bring forth a utopian dream but yet Rush Limbaugh and the other radicals would still -complain.-
His head would probably explode.

[Arainach]

Apparently the courts are tired of bullshit:

http://washingtonindependent.com/63558/orly-taitz-sanctioned-for-20000

The Court finds that counsel’s conduct was willful and not merely negligent. It demonstrates bad faith on her part. As an attorney, she is deemed to have known better. She owed a duty to follow the rules and to respect the Court. Counsel’s pattern of conduct conclusively establishes that she did not mistakenly violate a provision of law. She knowingly violated Rule 11. Her response to the Court’s show cause order is breathtaking in its arrogance and borders on delusional. She expresses no contrition or regret regarding her misconduct. To the contrary, she continues her baseless attacks on the Court.

[deathofcheese]

Nice.

I wonder how often these Jack-Thompson-circus-like attempted-abortion-of-justice cases occur.

[reginacroft]

This was being discussed on Listverse, and I think that he himself is a citizen of the states.

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:12 ----------

Sorry let me elaborate. His mum may NOT be a citizen, but he himself was born and raised in The United States and therefor is a citizen in my eyes.

[Killer_Man_]

This was being discussed on Listverse, and I think that he himself is a citizen of the states.

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:12 ----------

Sorry let me elaborate. His mum may NOT be a citizen, but he himself was born and raised in The United States and therefor is a citizen in my eyes.


Don't you mean his dad?

His mom was US citizen, his father wasn't. Obama was born in Hawaii.

[reginacroft]

Well then MY sources were smoking crack and I will now keep my mouth shut.

[Killer_Man_]

Yeah they were and you don't have to keep your mouth shut.

It's just his Mom was born in Hawaii and his Dad was from Kenya.

[reginacroft]

I heard opposite lol