The 2D Handheld / 3D Console Dichotomy

[Bloodcinder]

I want to know why it seems like a good idea that (generally speaking) the only games good in the classical way, that is, fun 2D games, end up on handheld systems while the fancier but ultimately lacking 3D games end up on consoles (other than because of the obvious hardware rationality).

I mean, we've had a few throwbacks into good gaming on modern consoles, but not nearly enough to elicit that kind of nostalgic awe the SNES was destined to guarantee. Nowadays, if you want to relive that, I imagine you need a GBA or DS (setting emulation aside in this topic), but I find handhelds so disdainful that I just don't want to invest in them.

I want to know: are there more people who feel this way, who would like to see a serious revival of good 2D games, whether or not upgraded with crappy modern-era filler? Perhaps this is a nebulous complaint on my part.

[Lately]

I, for one, am immensely disappointed that Japan received a PS2 update of Nights Into Dreams and we did not. Slightly off-topic, of course, since it is a Saturn game. But 99% of the game utilizes 2D controls!

Although I would not make any sort of generalizations about 3D games being inherently flashy/flawed/less fun, I do agree that the majority of 3D games have an immense focus on visuals. However, I don't understand any rationalization that says because a game looks pretty, It must necessarily have three dimensional movement. The original Playstation, though capable of free-roaming games, had some 3D visuals/2D controls games. The incredibly underappreciated Pandemonium series, that terrible Jurassic Park game, and...um...probably some more, though I fail to recall.

I know it is a handheld game, but Dracula X Chronicles for the PSP looks like an excellent example of how a company can handle throwbacks. It is essentially a graphically updated remake of a game that wasn't released in the United States: Castlevania: Rondo of Blood, for the PC Engine (/TurboDuo/Turbografx 16/whatever the crap else it was called). It is the original game with three dimensional visuals, but retains two dimensional controls. It looks bloody good, too. (Plus, as an added bonus, you get Castlevania: SotN.)

I'll have to extend my apologies for using such Castlevania-centric examples, but I know that we're not alone, here. After Castlevania: Curse of Darkness was released on the PS2 and XBox, its overwhelming mediocrity and downright laughable exploration spawned a huge outcry for a resurgence of 2D games on home consoles. The loudest voices were those who, like us, have a particular disdain for handheld consoles.

Remakes are great. I love them. However, I would really like to see new and interesting 2D (control scheme) games on home consoles. And then ported to PC, so I won't have to buy a next-gen/current-gen console.

...

Of course, I certainly wouldn't mind if these new and interesting 2D controls games are created under the Castlevania license.

[Killer_Man_]

Eh, I liked Lament of the Innocent and the so called 'expansion one' that supposely happens after that one. Those had some nifty 3D controls and 3D graphics.

Yeah it really sucks that most companies focus on visuals but mind you this. They are aiming for the general market, which means if you are about 12-16 and go, OOOOO SHINY. They are aiming for you. Though, since I grew up in such the awesome era of NES system. I learned to appreciate little to no graphics.

Look at Super Metroid 3 and Earthbound. Pretty pseudo 3D graphics(well maybe not Earthbound but Metroid did.) there but yet ever so awesome.

[Lately]

Lament of Innocence was enjoyable (even if "Walter" is a terrible name for a villain). Curse of Darkness was insulting. A true dump on the head of the 2D Castlevanias.

[Bloodcinder]

...even if "Walter" is a terrible name for a villain...
I know somebody who begs to differ.

http://triton.imageshack.us/Himg99/scaled.php?server=99&filename=waltersullivanbylilykanxy8.jpg&xsize=578&ysize=480

[Lately]

I stand by my claim.

[Killer_Man_]

What did you expect him to be named at that year? Earl? Though Curse wasn't really great I still enjoyed it.

[Bloodcinder]

Oh bitch please, Walter Sullivan is all kinds of bad-ass. He's so insane he thinks
a room is his mother
and he
kills himself to resurrect a uterus
. So don't even be telling me, because I'll tell you.

[Trogdor]

I want to know why it seems like a good idea that (generally speaking) the only games good in the classical way, that is, fun 2D games, end up on handheld systems while the fancier but ultimately lacking 3D games end up on consoles (other than because of the obvious hardware rationality).

I think it's mainly the hardware thing, actually.

I like where gaming is at right now, generally, so I can't say I'm all that interested in a 2D revival. Besides, there are tons of old games I never got around to playing, so if I'm ever really in the mood for a "new" game to play in a specific genre, I'll find one.

Yeah it really sucks that most companies focus on visuals but mind you this. They are aiming for the general market, which means if you are about 12-16 and go, OOOOO SHINY. They are aiming for you. Though, since I grew up in such the awesome era of NES system. I learned to appreciate little to no graphics.

I don't know about this. Seems like they always try to push the current hardware as far as it'll go. So I'm not sure how it's any different now than it was then, except the ceiling is higher. Back in the day people thought SMW looked awesome, just like people think Crysis looks awesome now.

I wonder if any of the old school gamers from the '70s used to look at NES games and complain about the focus on graphics. :p

[chefTENGU]

I wonder if any of the old school gamers from the '70s used to look at NES games and complain about the focus on graphics. :p
Lest we forget (http://www.retrojunk.com/details_commercial/1208/)

Hey, wasn't Contra: Shattered Soldier an attempt at recreating a 2D feel in a 3D game? (Never played it, myself). You could also make the case that the 2D levels that they revamped for Mario Kart (Wii) are something in a similar vein.

Anyway, Y U H8 on handhelds? There's some pretty awsome games you're intentionally dismissing out of hand.

[Seegtease]

2d games would be a waste of the large amount of technology inside of a console.

Plus they wouldn't sell.

[Bloodcinder]

Chef, because I don't like eye strain.

[deathofcheese]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c9/Super_Paper_Mario_cover.jpg/250px-Super_Paper_Mario_cover.jpg

AHEM.

[Bloodcinder]

Oh, baby please. Don't take me so literally. By "2D" and "3D" I'm more describing a feel for an era.

[Lately]

Personally, I plan on picking up a PSP sometime. One of the newer ones that have the whole televison connectivity stuffs. And it'd be nice to have on trips when I can't take the tower along. But it's a pretty significant investment, especially having JUST FINISHED MY LAST FINAL OF UNDERGRADUATE SCHOOL. (Miniature celebration time here.) Perhaps after Winter Solstice Heathen Holiday (my fancy new phrase for Christmas), I will assess the damages and see what I should do. Otherwise, as soon as the FBI calls me and says, "Why, yes, sir. You may have an entry-level position with full benefits and candy on Fridays," then I believe a PSP will be all up on my doorstep.

2d games would be a waste of the large amount of technology inside of a console.

Plus they wouldn't sell.

I don't think they would necessarily be a waste of technology. They could be every bit as visually stunning as normal 3D games. They could have 3D visuals, even, and simply only controlled in two dimensions.

I'd like to expand the definition of "2D" that I use to include Little Big Planet. Regardless of the number of dimensions controlled, the emphasis is on platforming. (Bear in mind I have not played it yet, but I long to do so.) Which leads me to another question for all: For those of us looking for a "throwback" or "retro" resurgence, are we all talking about platformers? I mean, I certainly am.

[Killer_Man_]

Look at Street Fighter, they are making anther game of that and it's still a side scrolling fighter game.

[deathofcheese]

Would a better expression of this topic be "why aren't the uber graphics-orgasm super-3d games of now nearly as fun as the bleeding-edge-2d-graphics-games of yore?"?

[Seegtease]

KM just reminded me of Super Smash Bros. Win example.

[Bloodcinder]

Would a better expression of this topic be "why aren't the uber graphics-orgasm super-3d games of now nearly as fun as the bleeding-edge-2d-graphics-games of yore?"?
Perhaps; perhaps not. I guess you can make the topic what you want it to be.

[chefTENGU]

I think the intention is why are games that go for the old 2D feel done so much more successfully on handhelds, while 3D games on consoles FAIL in this regard so consistently. Maybe. Am I close?

[Bloodcinder]

That's a little more like what I was thinking. But, you see, I have very few ideas of my own that I care to express and far more questions that I'd like to ask and have other people attempt to answer. The less pointed the question is, the more discussion comes from it, the better.

[Killer_Man_]

KM just reminded me of Super Smash Bros. Win example.

Yeah but Zeit, SF has always been a 2D fighter with 2D graphics. Now they are actually JUST NOW stepping it up.

Meh I prefer the lack of graphics because with the lack of graphics. They took their time to either make it look really good 2D and usually a good storyline. I mean look at Chrono Trigger. Epic game right there.

[Bodomi]

Hey, wasn't Contra: Shattered Soldier an attempt at recreating a 2D feel in a 3D game? (Never played it, myself).
Yep. It actually plays just like the 2D Contra games, the backgrounds and enemies are all 3D though.
Unlike some people, I actually like this game.
The soundtrack is nice too.

[tjkitsune]

The last good 2D games I recall on a console was back on the Dreamcast days. Chu Chu Rocket? Love Hina: Love Again? Record of Lodoss War? Sega Swirl? Ikiruga? ....MARVEL Vs. CAPCOM 2!!!

The other thing to consider are the Collection packs released by SNK, Capcom, and SEGA. The PS2 has alot of the Art of Fighting Collection, the King of Fighters Collection, and SEGA's releasing another rehash of 40+ old school "classic" sega games in February on the PS3 and XBOX 260. There's also the Arcade downloads on Live and the PSHome.

Though, the days of 2D platforming are practically gone... No more Donkey Kong Country.. Super Mario Bros. 3? Nope... All the days of old. We're just going to be seeing rehashes of collections of series every 3-4 years from now on...