The New Deal

[deathofcheese]

I saw something today that caused me to sit back and think. With all that's going on with the failing economy and heated debate over whether something is "pork" or "stimulus", a headline caught my eye in a newsletter I grudgingly read that my dad linked to me from Glenn Beck, referring to G.B.'s interview with some guy who posits that the New Deal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_new_deal) that FDR implemented in the 30s to combat the Great Depression actually lengthened and worsened the Depression. Now, after looking at the Wikipedia article, it appears as though far-leftists and others criticized the plan, saying that it rescued capitalism instead of nationalizing all kinds of institutions and industries (far-left complaint), in addition to enlarging the Federal government (I'm guessing this would've been a right wing or libertarian complaint) and slowing long-term growth.

So, if that plan was so bad, why did it work? Or, why didn't it work? Would something similar to the New Deal work now? Can the New Deal and the current stimulus be compared at all?

[Gareth]

Honestly, I think the current corporations all need to cut back their CEOs and higher staff, and put all that OMFG HOW DO YOU NEED THAT MUCH MONEY cash into better moar important things.

Seriously, We might as well come up with a plan like: HAY GUYZ LETS SPEND LIKE A GOLD DIGGER, LOLZ GREAT IDEA.
I R NEED JET PLAINZ, MOAR JET PLAINZ, KAY THANKS.

This was an attempt to mock corporate society.

[Bloodcinder]

The economy our government has mandated is basically a feedback loop. It can't be repaired, because the causes of our problems are never addressed: only the symptoms.

[SpaceProg]

In other words: We're screwed no matter what we do. Let's get drunk.

[Gareth]

In other words: We're screwed no matter what we do. Let's get drunk.
I approve of this.

[Seegtease]

Oh, SP! *audience laughter*

[chefTENGU]

One of the things Obama says he's trying to do with this stimulus is try to ease some of those symptoms by giving people some relief from healthcare expenses and helping to bolster education. Two of the things a lot of republican congressmen have been railing against as "pork"/"socialism".

Actually, I was thinking about the New Deal myself today, in regard to something Michael Steele said on Stephanopoulos's program, saying that the stimulus will fail because it doesn't create "jobs," it merely creates "work." The distinction being that the projects Obama is envisioning all have an end, so all those folks will be out of work again eventually.

However, the work that went into building the Hoover Dam and establishing the TVA back in the 1930s was also merely temporary, and they're considered some of FDR's greatest achievements.

I figured that projects like that take at the very least several years to complete. During which time, the people who work on them get to earn a steady income and get benefits, instead of collecting an unemployment check for 6 months. During which time they will be able to spend the money they earn on whatever they want, which is one of the things that our economy desperately needs right now.

Now, I'm not sure about how we're going to fix everything for good, I'm no economist. But I guess I feel that the New Deal, or any similar program, would end up doing more good than harm.

[deathofcheese]

One of the few things my dad and I agree on is that it's ridiculous for someone to make a career out of welfare. That is, to find some way or excuse to sit on your ass and have the government pay you to live. Maybe not live well, but that's a matter of what bracket you consider "living well" is.

I agree that people need jobs and not work (the difference being that one is less temporary than the other), but it doesn't seem like we'll be out of government paying people to live at any time in my life. So, instead of just bitching about making government bigger to provide temporary work and putting your feet down to resist any and all kind of change that isn't exactly "what I called for eight years ago", why don't we at least put a program in place where those people that do sit around collecting government money just to live are actually forced to get up and do something that's somehow productive to society? Like roadwork. A lot of roadwork needs to be done, but it seems that that's being labeled as "pork". So, instead of bitching about it and throwing it out, why don't we just collect all the people on welfare (that are actually physically capable of doing roadwork, the discernment of which we could probably make a whole other discussion on) and tell them "ok, we found some work for you; do this and get some extra money beyond welfare (albeit, not a fortune more) while we ease healthcare for you for a little while, that way you'll get a little extra money to start buying or paying off debt like a good citizen. if you don't want to do the work or don't want to take the pay we're offering, then you can do without and you can kiss welfare goodbye." Granted, I'm sure phrasing it in that way would cause quite a shitstorm amongst Democrats as well as the people it was intended for, but sometimes it's a swift kick in the pants that's needed, not a babying hand.

[Arainach]

You realize that welfare is totally separate from unemployment, yes? A vast majority of people on welfare either have jobs or are physically unable to keep jobs.

[SpaceProg]

Or mentally... just thought I'd throw that in there.