A Threat to Rights?

[deathofcheese]

Watching The Daily Show and Colbert Report last night, I heard about some anti gay marriage groups that claim that legalizing gay marriage will hurt individuals' rights, as well as civil rights in general. I kinda stared at the TV for a few minutes after hearing one of their commercials, completely dumbstruck trying to process what I'd just heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp76ly2_NoI

Really?
(Roffles for the "rainbow coalition" reference.)

It what twisted, perverted universe do they live in where granting more rights ends up in taking freedom away from people who otherwise wouldn't be affected? (How is a doctor affected by gay marriage?) When two men can marry, does this mean that only same-sex couples will be able to marry from now on? (I would say no, unless America is suddenly only allowed to have one kind of marriage.)

I can understand religious communities' aversion and resistance to same-sex marriage. However, it isn't right to deny American citizens what should be a fundamental right. While legislation might not be the end-all be-all answer, it certainly helps.

[Jasmin Jaquine]

So instead of teaching our children to be understanding about other ways of life and to be open-minded....let's teach them that being gay is wrong and so forth and so forth....

What a boring commercial.

---------- Post added at 13:45 ---------- Previous post was at 13:44 ----------

And yes, I almost did say "What a gay commercial"...

[Bloodcinder]

Last I checked, Massachusetts hasn't been destroyed by fire, and the Christians there haven't been forced to attend, perform, or recognize gay marriages. The only people remotely affected would be business-people, and I'd like any business-owner to claim that he's never conducted business with somebody he believes to be a sinner.

But, yes, let's raise another generation of children with high suicide and depression rates because they're led to believe that being who they were born to be is evil.

[Arainach]

I'm a doctor and I might *gasp* be forced to not discriminate against gay people! The HORROR!

[Killer_Man_]

I'm a doctor and I might *gasp* be forced to not discriminate against gay people! The HORROR!

I think by the doctor one, was because of aboration.

Some people feel that they are being forced to 'conduct things' even if it's against what they believe.

Such as being afraid of being sued(A church) if they don't marry same sex partners.

Much like a doctor being fired for refusing to abort a pregnancy.

That's what they are trying to get at.

[deathofcheese]

So....how does legalizing gay marriage lead to an increase in requested abortions? Except in the case of a married pair of lesbians having second thoughts about artificial insemination (which wouldn't really be affected by gay marriage, the pair could just as easily not be married), it'd still be unplanned or unwanted pregnant women coming to see the doctor, marital and sexual preference notwithstanding.

Maybe they're linking the two by doing the "you start down this road, who knows where you'll end up" argument, but that's just dumb. The issue of gay marriage has nothing to do with the morally or legality of abortion (as far as I know), so really, they're just spreading out to saying "HAY! you don't support abortion, do you? then you automatically don't support gay marriage and you should vote against it!". Which is underhanded and wrong.

[Arainach]

I think by the doctor one, was because of aboration.

Some people feel that they are being forced to 'conduct things' even if it's against what they believe.

Such as being afraid of being sued(A church) if they don't marry same sex partners.

Much like a doctor being fired for refusing to abort a pregnancy.

That's what they are trying to get at.If contraception is against your beliefs, don't be a pharmacist. If abortion is against your beliefs, don't be a doctor providing reproductive services. There's plenty of other careers out there; you have no implicit right to any of them if you don't agree to their requirements. You don't see me trying to be a priest and arguing that I won't mention God because "it's against my beliefs".

[Killer_Man_]

So....how does legalizing gay marriage lead to an increase in requested abortions? Except in the case of a married pair of lesbians having second thoughts about artificial insemination (which wouldn't really be affected by gay marriage, the pair could just as easily not be married), it'd still be unplanned or unwanted pregnant women coming to see the doctor, marital and sexual preference notwithstanding.

No, no, I mean the people feel their rights to careers that they want are being infringed.

Such as a church being sued because they don't want to wed same-sex.

Maybe they're linking the two by doing the "you start down this road, who knows where you'll end up" argument, but that's just dumb. The issue of gay marriage has nothing to do with the morally or legality of abortion (as far as I know), so really, they're just spreading out to saying "HAY! you don't support abortion, do you? then you automatically don't support gay marriage and you should vote against it!". Which is underhanded and wrong. No, I am not going down that road.

If contraception is against your beliefs, don't be a pharmacist. If abortion is against your beliefs, don't be a doctor providing reproductive services. There's plenty of other careers out there; you have no implicit right to any of them if you don't agree to their requirements. You don't see me trying to be a priest and arguing that I won't mention God because "it's against my beliefs".

Ary, there should be limits on how much a business should force on the people.

What if a person wants to be a doctor that refers to reproductive services, they should be able to do everything but -abortion.- There is more to reproductive services than just abortion.

Same with the idea of being a priest or whatever service man. They should not be worried about being sued because the state wants same-sex marriage but the church doesn't want them.

Each church should be able to marry who they want according to their doctrine.

EDIT:

It reminds me of a lawsuit that was in Wisconsin not too long ago because a bar only wanted people who are older than 26 to keep the 'frat boys/sorenity[Is that right?] girls' away and make the bar a place of more maturity. Well the courts ruled in favour of the bar and said they can do whatever they want as far as limiting who can enter and enjoy their services.

[Arainach]

Ary, there should be limits on how much a business should force on the people.

What if a person wants to be a doctor that refers to reproductive services, they should be able to do everything but -abortion.- There is more to reproductive services than just abortion.No, there shouldn't be. If you don't want to do the job, don't take the job. Jobs aren't pick and choose. I can't say "Oh, I want to develop cool new features for Windows, but I don't want to deal with bug fixing or spec writing". Microsoft would fire my ass in a moment.Same with the idea of being a priest or whatever service man. They should not be worried about being sued because the state wants same-sex marriage but the church doesn't want them.Invalid argument; churches would never be forced to perform marriage ceremonies they don't approve of. See: First Amendment. We're talking government recognition of marriage.

[Killer_Man_]

No, there shouldn't be. If you don't want to do the job, don't take the job. Jobs aren't pick and choose. I can't say "Oh, I want to develop cool new features for Windows, but I don't want to deal with bug fixing or spec writing". Microsoft would fire my ass in a moment.

But yet I'm sure there are people who love dealing with bug fixing/spec writing. But whatever, I see your point but I still find it stupid... I did some research.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73125

And here is the kicker...

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5819

http://www.lifenews.com/nat4865.html

Invalid argument; churches would never be forced to perform marriage ceremonies they don't approve of. See: First Amendment. We're talking government recognition of marriage.

Heh, well I was just tossing it out there.

[deathofcheese]

No, no, I mean the people feel their rights to careers that they want are being infringed.So if a white supremacist wanted to become a doctor, would he be within his rights to turn away all black people?

No, I am not going down that road.Whether you want to or not, NOM is. They've made a connection between allowing gay marriage and forcing doctors to perform abortions when the issues are obviously not hand-in-hand.

What if a person wants to be a doctor that refers to reproductive services, they should be able to do everything but -abortion.- There is more to reproductive services than just abortion.

Same with the idea of being a priest or whatever service man. They should not be worried about being sued because the state wants same-sex marriage but the church doesn't want them.

Each church should be able to marry who they want according to their doctrine.I am largely ignorant on laws prohibiting/allowing/forcing/etc. doctors and abortions, but I think there's a difference between VA-employed doctors and other doctors. I'm not really sure I approve of any doctor being forced to do a procedure, but being government employees (again, I'm ignorant of how this works; this might not apply at all), they probably can be forced to do an abortion against their beliefs. Does a Jewish chef have to prepare a non-kosher meal?

It reminds me of a lawsuit that was in Wisconsin not too long ago because a bar only wanted people who are older than 26 to keep the 'frat boys/sorenity[Is that right?] girls' away and make the bar a place of more maturity. Well the courts ruled in favour of the bar and said they can do whatever they want as far as limiting who can enter and enjoy their services.That isn't the same issue.

But whatever, I see your point but I still find it stupid.......are you for real? Did you really just say that?

[Killer_Man_]

Yes I am for real and I can still see Ary's point but still find it silly that doctors can't work in a certain job field but be forced to do things.

-Regardless-... I don't know. Lol

[Seegtease]

churches would never be forced to perform marriage ceremonies they don't approve of. See: First Amendment. We're talking government recognition of marriage.

As if something being unconstitutional has ever truly stopped the government from enforcing whatever laws they please. If they want to do it badly enough, they'll find a way.

[Arainach]

It's still a separate issue. What's being asked for is legal recognition of marriage, not a ceremony. Churches would not be forced to partake in the ceremony. They're allowed to not perform a ceremony for any couple, heterosexual or homosexual, that they don't want to.

[Killer_Man_]

It's still a separate issue. What's being asked for is legal recognition of marriage, not a ceremony. Churches would not be forced to partake in the ceremony. They're allowed to not perform a ceremony for any couple, heterosexual or homosexual, that they don't want to.

Yes, but like any other minority, most would complain or try to sue just because they can.

[Arainach]

And lose. That's their right.

[Bloodcinder]

Here (http://daveandthomas.net/blog/2009/04/19/stephen-colbert%E2%80%99s-anti-gay-marriage-ad/)'s the link to Colbert's parody.

[chefTENGU]

It's awesome. Things get wet.