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Bloodcinder
04-29-2009, 11:44
I just saw the video of the low altitude Air Force One flyover of New York City which, if you recall, was officially for a photo-op.

I am incensed with anger.

This stupid shit has been happening since Obama was elected. It's barely surprising now, and people are accusing the administration quite rationally of being (oh my god!?) inexperienced or just plain unintelligent.

Frankly, I'm thrilled with this scenario, because it leaves exactly two exclusive options for reasonable people.

1. Acknowledge that Obama is too inexperienced for this job or is an idiot.

2. Acknowledge that not every stupid thing that happens during an administration can be blamed fairly on its President as if he alone is the source of all evil.

I'm having a heyday with this, because there's really no way around it: all the people who bitched and moaned about every individual flub of the entire Bush administration by blaming exactly one man must now reasonably choose one of the above options.

Of course, we know that not all people are reasonable, so here's the third and final option.

3. Acknowledge no double standard and ignore it all.

I myself choose to acknowledge that either 1 or 2 is correct, but I'm content to stick with "lawl barack" until I can decide.

deathofcheese
04-29-2009, 12:08
LAWL RON

---------- Post added at 11:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------

You do bring up very good points, however.

I think that most of the outcry about Bush/Cheney was due to Bush being perceived as a total idiot and that they (Bush/Cheney) made decisions that the vast majority of popular culture decided was inherently evil. There were things he obviously shouldn't have done and obviously should've ensured didn't get done. However, I agree that the public dissent, or popular dissent, with him went a little far for the President, and it's probably the same people now that are painting Obama in the "messianic" light he hasn't earned (and likely will not earn).

In regards to your two outcomes for sensible people, realize that many of the people you're referring to aren't sensible people. They're already the ones that worked up anti-Bush sentiments to a fever pitch and the same ones who now look at Obama and see a savior. Maybe the only people who will agree with one of those two outcomes are the ones who've thought Obama was a Muslim Terrorist for so long.

I had a point and a coherent train of thought at one point, but inbetween having to poop pretty bad and thinking about the two exams I have back to back in twenty minutes, I've lost it with no hope of recovery.

Seegtease
04-29-2009, 13:46
So they have to either keep the blame pointed at Barack, or admit that Bush wasn't at fault for everything, you mean?

You know most people will pick option 3, right? Most people wouldn't dare admit to either of those.

Bloodcinder
04-29-2009, 14:10
Yes.

Yes. But by picking option 3 they confirm my point.

Arainach
04-29-2009, 15:09
Encouraging Stupid Photo Ops != Encouraging willful disobedience of the law, torture, and nuking civil liberties. I'll take a million of #1 before any of #2.

Killer_Man_
04-29-2009, 15:28
Who cares? People make mistakes. Get over it.

Bloodcinder
04-29-2009, 15:35
Encouraging Stupid Photo Ops != Encouraging willful disobedience of the law, torture, and nuking civil liberties. I'll take a million of #1 before any of #2.
You did what all the unreasonable people do: you put words in my mouth and then proceeded to argue against those words.

I'll let somebody else show you how you did that, because it's fairly simple.

Arainach
04-29-2009, 15:40
And YOU put up a strawman argument with bullshit answers.1. Acknowledge that Obama is too inexperienced for this job or is an idiot.

2. Acknowledge that not every stupid thing that happens during an administration can be blamed fairly on its President as if he alone is the source of all evil.I'll pick 0: Yes, it probably should have been thought over more, yes, the blame ultimately falls back to him, but that doesn't make Obama too inexperienced for this job or an idiot. Stupid shit like this happens. Particularly NOW, when he's got an obstructionist Congress, the worst economic disaster in modern history, a potential emerging pandemic that the CDC's concerned about, oh yeah those two wars overseas everyone likes to forget about, etc., etc..... I would think a fucking flyover photo op wouldn't even make the bottom of his daily briefing with a list like that.

Bloodcinder
04-29-2009, 15:41
You're comparing items I'm not discussing.

(Hint: the actual valid answer is 2.)

Z
04-29-2009, 15:54
In essence, I don't think BC's calling Obama inept. I think BC is pointing out, now that there's a Dem in office, how ridiculous previous democrat complaints were against every little thing Bush did in office.

No one's saying Bush didn't make mistakes. The argument is simply pointing out that Bush didn't make every mistake that Dem's sometimes give him credit for. Just as Obama shouldn't be credited for making the flyby mistake.

Bloodcinder
04-29-2009, 16:22
In essence, I don't think BC's calling Obama inept. I think BC is pointing out, now that there's a Dem in office, how ridiculous previous democrat complaints were against every little thing Bush did in office.

No one's saying Bush didn't make mistakes. The argument is simply pointing out that Bush didn't make every mistake that Dem's sometimes give him credit for. Just as Obama shouldn't be credited for making the flyby mistake.
Winner.

chefTENGU
04-29-2009, 17:29
I haven't heard anything to verify that it was in fact Obama's idea to have someone fly that plane over NYC.

What I have heard is that Obama is "furious" about the incident (and rightly so), and someone working in the white house (the damn vague news ticker didn't specify who) has apologized for the incident and accepted blame for it.

Z
04-29-2009, 17:34
Indeed, Obama was in no way directly responsible for the flyby

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/air.force.one.2.996457.html
FAA Memo: Feds Knew NYC Flyover Would Cause Panic

A furious President Barack Obama ordered an internal review of Monday's low-flying photo op over the Statue of Liberty.

CBS 2 HD has discovered the feds will have plenty to question.

Federal officials knew that sending two fighter jets and a 747 from the presidential fleet to buzz ground zero and Lady Liberty might set off nightmarish fears of a 9/11 replay, but they still ordered the photo-op kept secret from the public.

In a memo obtained by CBS 2 HD, the Federal Aviation Administration's James Johnston said the agency was aware of "the possibility of public concern regarding DOD (Department of Defense) aircraft flying at low altitudes" in an around New York City. But they demanded total secrecy from the NYPD, the Secret Service, the FBI and even the mayor's office and threatened federal sanctions if the secret got out.

The flyover -- apparently ordered by the White House Office of Military Affairs so it would have souvenir photos of Air Force One with the Statue of Liberty in the background -- had President Obama seeing red. He ordered a probe and apologized.

"It was a mistake. It will never happen again," President Obama said.

The cost of the frivolous flight was about $60,000 an hour and that was just for the presidential aircraft. That doesn't include the cost of the two F-16s that came along.
(summarized)

According to this site...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHJlkHaApn4o&refer=home

...the photo op cost a total of $328,835. Tax money at work, heh.

chefTENGU
04-29-2009, 17:40
I liked the Daily Show's take on it. Photoshop use ftw.

Z
04-29-2009, 18:14
Someone did 100 Days, 100 Mistakes on Obama.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04252009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/100_days__100_mistakes_166177.htm

100 DAYS, 100 MISTAKES
JOE SCARBOROUGH, GLENN BECK AND OTHERS ON OBAMA'S SHORT, ERROR-PRONE TIME IN OFFICE

1. "Obama criticized pork barrel spending in the form of 'earmarks,' urging changes in the way that Congress adopts the spending proposals. Then he signed a spending bill that contains nearly 9,000 of them, some that members of his own staff shoved in last year when they were still members of Congress. 'Let there be no doubt, this piece of legislation must mark an end to the old way of doing business, and the beginning of a new era of responsibility and accountability,' Obama said." -- McClatchy, 3/11

2. "There is no doubt that we've been living beyond our means and we're going to have to make some adjustments." -- Obama during the campaign.

3. This year's budget deficit: $1.5 trillion.

4. Asks his Cabinet to cut costs in their departments by $100 million -- a whopping .0027%!

5. "The White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House) says the president is unaware of the tea parties." -- ABC News, 4/15


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo02.jpg


6. "Mr. Obama is an accomplished orator but is becoming known in America as the 'teleprompt president' over his reliance on the machine when he gives a speech." -- Sky News, 3/18

7. In early February, the 2010 census was moved out of the Department of Commerce and into the White House, politicizing how federal aid is distributed and electoral districts are drawn.

8. Obama taps Nancy Killefer for a new administration job, First Chief Performance Officer -- to police government spending. But it surfaces that Killefer had performance issues of her own -- a tax lien was slapped on her DC home in 2005 for failure to pay unemployment compensation tax on household help. She withdrew.

9. Turkey tried to block the appointment of Anders Fogh Rasmussen as new NATO secretary general because he didn't properly punish the Danish cartoonist who caricatured Mohammed. France's Nicolas Sarkozy and Germany's Angela Merkel were outraged; Obama said he supported Turkey's induction into the European Union.

10. . . . and he never mentioned the Armenian genocide.

11. The picture of Obama and Hugo Chavez shaking hands.

12. Hugo Chavez gave him the anti-American screed "The Open Veins of Latin America." Obama didn't remark upon it. At least it wasn't DVDs.

13. Nicaragua's Daniel Ortega went on a 50-minute anti-American rant, calling Obama "president of an empire." Obama didn't leave the room. "I thought it was 50 minutes long. That's what I thought," he said.

14. Executives at AIG get $165 million in bonuses, despite receiving an $173 billion taxpayer bailout.


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo37.jpg


15. "For months, the Obama administration and members of Congress have known that insurance giant AIG was getting ready to pay huge bonuses while living off government bailouts. It wasn't until the money was flowing and news was trickling out to the public that official Washington rose up in anger and vowed to yank the money back." -- Associated Press, 3/18

16. "After pushing Congress for weeks to hurry up and pass the massive $787 billion stimulus bill, President Obama promptly took off for a three-day holiday getaway." -- New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=New_York%20Post), 2/15

17. MEGHAN CLYNE ON: "I WON" AND THE DEATH OF BIPARTISANSHIP

"Obama soared to victory on the hopeful promise of a new era of bipartisanship. During his inaugural address he even promised an 'end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn-out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.'

"Too bad it took all of three days for the promise to ring hollow.

"Start with Obama's big meeting with top congressional leaders on his signature legislation -- the stimulus -- on the Friday after his inauguration. Listening to Republican concerns about overspending was a nice gesture -- until he shut down any hopes of real dialogue by crassly telling Republican leaders: 'I won.' Even the White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House)'s leaking of the comment was a slap at the Republican leadership, who'd expected Obama to adhere to the custom of keeping private meetings with congressional leadership, well, private.

"It's only gone downhill from there. The stimulus included zero Republican recommendations, and failed to get a single House Republican vote.
"It's not just the tactic of using Republicans for bipartisan photo-ops, and then cutting them loose before partisan decisions, that irks Obama's opponents. The new president wasted no time rushing forward with policies and legislation guaranteed to drive Republicans nuts. The first bill he signed into law was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act -- a partisan hot-button that drew all of eight Republican supporters in the entire Congress. Then there was the swift reversal of Bush policies on abortion and embryonic-stem-cell research -- issues dear to the Republican base.


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo09.jpg


"And when Obama and the Democrats in Congress took up SCHIP -- the children's health-insurance bill that Republicans say vastly expands government's role in health care -- they had an easy chance for real bipartisanship. After all, the bill had been hashed out in the previous Congress, and a bipartisan accord was reached before President Bush responded with a veto. Did the Obama team push for the compromise version in the 111th Congress? Nope. They went back to the drawing board, ramming through the Democrats' dream version.

"Of course, the lack of bipartisanship isn't limited to Capitol Hill. Obama has taken gratuitous swipes at the Republicans who recently decamped Washington, blaming President Bush for everything from the economy and the war to the lack of sufficient puppies and rainbows. And who could forget the Rush Limbaugh flap -- in which Obama's top advisers, including chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, orchestrated a public relations campaign meant to undermine the Republican National Committee (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Republican_National%20Committee) chairman, Michael Steele, by framing talk-radio personality Limbaugh as the real head of the Republican Party.

"For now, Obama's back-pedal on the bipartisanship promise just makes him look insincere. But the real consequences of the mistake will be felt soon enough. As Presidents Bush and Clinton could tell him, congressional majorities do change -- and at some point, Obama will need Republicans on his side. He'd be smart to spend his second 100 days making up for the serious snubs of his first."
-- Meghan Clyne is a DC-based writer.

18. "The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today." -- Department of Homeland Security intelligence report

19. Nixes a "buy American" provision in the stimulus bill.

20. "Yes, Canada is not Mexico, it doesn't have a drug war going on. Nonetheless, to the extent that terrorists have come into our country or suspected or known terrorists have entered our country across a border, it's been across the Canadian border. There are real issues there." -- Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano. The 9/11 hijackers did not come across the Canada border

21. "The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system. The proposal is politically problematic for President Obama, however, since it is similar to one he denounced in the presidential campaign as 'the largest middle-class tax increase in history.' " -- New York Times, 3/14

http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo11.jpg

22. JOE SCARBOROUGH ON: PROMOTING FEAR

"During his historic inaugural speech, Barack Obama (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Barack_Obama) promised to usher in a transformational age where hope would replace fear, unity would overtake partisanship, and change would sweep aside the status quo. But early in President Obama's first 100 days it is obvious that the only thing that is changing is the Candidate of Change, himself.

"The same politician who proclaimed during his inauguration that 'on this day we have chosen hope over fear' soon warned Americans that the US economy would be forever destroyed if the stimulus bill was voted down.

"Why was it that same man who promised to put Americans' interests ahead of his own political ambitions chose instead to use the suffering of citizens to advance his agenda?

"Maybe he was following the guidance of Rahm Emanuel (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Rahm_Emanuel), who famously said, 'You never want to waste a good crisis.'

"They didn't.

"The White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House)'s warnings were so over-the-top that Bill Clinton felt compelled to warn the new president against making such grim pronouncements. Americans would quickly warn that the White House would not channel FDR's eternal optimism but rather embrace the gloomy worldview of Edgar Allen Poe.

"The Candidate of Hope also quickly adopted the Nixonian worldview that Americans voted their fears rather than their hopes. Over Mr. Obama's first 100 days, that cynical calculation paid off politically for a White House that seemed most interested in appeasing the most liberal members of his Democratic Party.

"I expected more from Barack Obama (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Barack_Obama). For the sake of my country, I hope I get it from the new president over the next 100 days."
-- Joe Scarborough, host of MSNBC's "Morning Joe" and author of "The Last Best Hope: Restoring Conservatism and America's Promise" (Crown Forum), due out June 9.

23. Sanjay Gupta was in discussions to become Surgeon General, but the TV personality withdrew after he was criticized for his flimsy political record.

24. Rasmussen finds 58% of Americans believe the Obama administration's release of CIA memos endangers the national security of the United States.

25. Only 28% think the Obama administration should do any further investigating of how the Bush administration treated terrorism suspects.

26. "Obama thanked CIA employees for their work and said they're invaluable to national security. He explained his decision to release the memos, then told everyone not to feel bad because he was now acknowledging potential mistakes. Theirs, not his. 'That's how we learn,' Obama said, as though soothing a room full of fourth-graders." -- The Oklahoman, 4/23

27. By releasing the torture memos, Obama opened American citizens up to international tribunals. A UN lawyer said the US is obliged to prosecute lawyers who drafted the memos or else violate the Geneva Conventions.


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo61.jpg


28. In their first meeting, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown gave Obama a carved ornamental penholder from the timbers of the anti-slavery ship HMS Gannet. Obama gave him 25 DVDs that don't work in Europe.

29. TIM CARNEY ON: PICKING BILL RICHARDSON AS SECRETARY OF COMMERCE

"Richardson's value in Obama's Cabinet had everything to do with appearances. First, he was the Hispanic pick. Second, because Richardson had run against Obama for President, tapping him for the Cabinet helped the media write the Obama-Lincoln comparisons by burnishing the 'Team of Rivals' image.

"But Richardson withdrew before Obama was even inaugurated when news came out about a criminal investigation involving David Rubin, president of a firm named Chambers, Dunhill, Rubin & Co. (although there was no Chambers or Dunhill), who had donated at least $110,000 to Richardson's campaign committees and had also profited from $1.5 million in contracts from the state government.

"This was an early warning sign about Obama's vetting process (various tax problems and the Daschle problem would reveal this as a theme), but picking Richardson to run Commerce also highlighted that Obama and Richardson's promise of 'public-private partnerships' -- such as Detroit bailouts, Wall Street bailouts, and green energy--was an open door for corruption and was at odds with Obama's promise to diminish the influence of lobbyists.

"The Richardson mistake was one of Obama's first, and it was emblematic. Richardson embodied Obama's attention to self-image and the problems inherent in his vision of an intimate business-government connection."
-- Tim Carney is a Washington Examiner columnist

30. Timothy Geithner nomination as Secretary of Treasury was almost torpedoed when it was discovered he had failed to pay $34,000 in Social Security and Medicare taxes. He also employed an illegal immigrant as a housekeeper. He was confirmed anyway.

31. . . . Not so lucky, Annette Nazareth, who was nominated for Deputy Treasury Secretary. She withdrew her name for undisclosed "personal reasons" after a monthlong probe into her taxes . . .

32. . . . or Caroline Atkinson, who withdrew as nominee for Undersecretary of International Affairs in Treasury Department, with a source blaming the long vetting process. Geithner still has a skeleton crew at Treasury, with no one qualified -- or willing -- to take jobs there.

33. "Barack Obama (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Barack_Obama) has been embroiled in a cronyism row after reports that he intends to make Louis Susman, one of his biggest fundraisers, the new US ambassador in London. The selection of Mr. Susman, a lawyer and banker from the president's hometown of Chicago, rather than an experienced diplomat, raises new questions about Mr Obama's commitment to the special relationship with Britain." -- Telegraph, 2/22


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo56.jpg


34. Obama's doom-and-gloom comments and budget bill push the Dow below 7,000, from which it's only recently recovered.

35. "You're sitting here. And you're -- you are laughing. You are laughing about some of these problems. Are people going to look at this and say, 'I mean, he's sitting there just making jokes about money--' How do you deal with -- I mean: Explain. Are you punch-drunk?" -- Steve Kroft, "60 Minutes," 3/22

36. "We have begun to modernize 75% of all federal building space, which has the potential to reduce long-term energy costs by billions of dollars on behalf of taxpayers. We are providing grants to states to help weatherize hundreds of thousands of homes, which will save the families that benefit about $350 each year. That's like a $350 tax cut." -- Obama, describing something that doesn't cut taxes.

37. "The Obama administration has directed defense officials to sign a pledge stating they will not share 2010 budget data with individuals outside the federal government." -- Defense News, 2/19


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo64.jpg

38. Backtracking on a campaign promise he made to black farmers, Obama significantly lowered the amount of money they could claim in a discrimination settlement against the Agricultural Department. "I can't figure out for the life of me why the president wouldn't want to implement a bill that he fought for as a US senator," said John Boyd, head of the National Black Farmers Association.

39. "I've been practicing bowling. I bowled a 129. It was like the Special Olympics or something." -- Obama on "The Tonight Show"

40. Obama lifts travel and remittance restrictions on Cuba.

41. Obama considers dropping the embargo on Cuba.

42. After warming signs from Raul Castro, Fidel Castro says Obama "misinterpreted" his brother's words, and that Cuba would not be willing to negotiate about human rights.

43. Obama is considering dropping a key demand to Iran, allowing it to keep nuclear facilities open during negotiations.

44. In a letter to Dmitri Medvedev, Obama offered to drop plans for a missile shield in Europe in exchange for Russia's help in resolving the nuclear weapons issue in Iran.

45. Medvedev said he would not "haggle" on Iran and the missile shield.


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo48.jpg

46. Obama asked Congress for an extra $83.4 billion to fund operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, a special funding measure of the kind he opposed while in the senate. As a candidate, Obama promised to cut the cost of military operations.

47. After trying to woo Europe as the "anti-Bush," Obama made an impassioned plea for more troops in Afghanistan. "Europe should not simply expect the United States to shoulder that burden alone," he said. "This is a joint problem it requires a joint effort." Only the UK offered substantial help, most others refused.

48. "While the online question portion of the White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House) town hall was open to any member of the public with an Internet connection, the five fully identified questioners called on randomly by the president in the East Room were anything but a diverse lot. They included: a member of the pro-Obama Service Employees International Union, a member of the Democratic National Committee who campaigned for Obama among Hispanics during the primary; a former Democratic candidate for Virginia state delegate who endorsed Obama last fall in an op-ed in the Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star; and a Virginia businessman who was a donor to Obama's campaign in 2008." -- Washington Post, 3/27

49. Obama bows to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia at a G-20 meeting in London.

50. "It wasn't a bow. He grasped his hand with two hands, and he's taller than King Abdullah." -- An Obama aide

51. DANA PERINO ON: REMAINING IN CAMPAIGN MODE

"Has it really only been 100 days? In many ways it feels like a lot longer.
"That's partly because the new administration remains in campaign mode most of the time. Now that's not in itself a bad thing if you can do that and accomplish your agenda. But what's happened is that a popular new president has laid out a very bold agenda in the midst of an economic crisis, and I don't think Congress is going to get a lot of work done on those big ticket items this year. They'll eke out a couple of small wins on issues like healthcare and maybe energy, but the Democrats will hail them as big victories. The Republicans have been working like a cohesive and loyal opposition party, and they need to continue to outline positive new ideas like the recent one to help grow American's savings.

"The early stumbles on the administration's high profile nominations -- Daschle and Richardson for just to examples -- acted like weights around their ankles. In addition, the partisan shots from the White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House) were unbecoming and I don't think we'll see more of that. Our allies and our enemies -- heck, even we ourselves -- are trying to understand the new foreign policy direction, which in some ways seems to be change just for the sake of change. The next moves by the leaders of other countries -- like Iran, North Korea and Venezuela -- probably will prove that really not much will change just because America has a new president.

"In many ways, it's the next 100 days that will tell us more about our new president and what he'll be able to accomplish than we can forecast based on the first 100 days."
-- Dana Perino was White House press secretary in the Bush Administration

52. "We can't afford to make perfect the enemy of the absolutely necessary." -- Obama, describing the stimulus bill

53. Three candidates for ambassador to the Vatican -- including Caroline Kennedy -- were turned down by the Holy See because they supported abortion, according to reports.


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo46.jpg


54. After saying he wouldn't have lobbyists in his administration, Obama made 17 exceptions in the first two weeks in office.

55. . . . including Tom Daschle, who worked as a top lobbyist yet was going to be appointed Secretary of Health and Human Services -- until his failure to pay income taxes derailed his nomination.

56. For an April 14 speech at Georgetown, the administration asked the university to cover up all signs and symbols -- including the letters "IHS" in gold, a symbol for Jesus.

57. Samantha Power, who resigned from the Obama campaign after calling Hillary Rodham Clinton a "monster," was hired to a position on the National Security Council.

58. "Chicago has yet to recoup the $1.74 million cost of President Obama's victory celebration in Grant Park -- despite a burgeoning $50.5 million budget shortfall that threatens more layoffs and union concessions." -- Chicago Sun-Times, 2/20

59. Firing Rick Wagoner as president of GM.

60. Threatening to fire Vikram Pandit as CEO of Citigroup.

61. Threatening to fire anyone the administration doesn't like from any company.

62. Not adopting a dog from a shelter.

63. "The GAO study asserts that officials from most of the states surveyed 'expressed concerns regarding the lack of Recovery Act funding provided for accountability and oversight. Due to fiscal constraints, many states reported significant declines in the number of oversight staff -- limiting their ability to ensure proper implementation and management of Recovery Act funds.' " -- ABC News, 4/23

64. "The National Newspaper Publishers Association named Obama 'Newsmaker of the Year.' The president is to receive the award from the federation of black community newspapers in a White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House) ceremony this afternoon. The Obama White House has closed the press award ceremony to the press." -- Los Angeles Times, 3/20

65. "Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards." -- Attorney General Eric Holder

66. "I didn't want to get into a Nancy Reagan thing about, you know, doing any seances." -- Obama, on consulting with only "living" presidents

67. Obama quietly announced that he would not press for new labor and environmental regulations in the North American Free Trade Agreement, going back on a campaign promise.


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo44.jpg

68. NICOLE GELINAS ON: MISSPENT STIMULUS

"One of Obama's most poignant missed opportunities was in not using the historic $787 million stimulus package to reorder state and local government's spending priorities. As states and cities continue to spend ceaselessly and without results on education and healthcare, they're crowding out investments in the physical infrastructure that the private sector needs to rebuild the economy.

"In the stimulus, of the more than $200 billion that went directly to states and cities, nearly 70% went to education and healthcare spending. Only 24% went to infrastructure spending.

"But the states and cities in the most trouble already spend way too much on education and healthcare, pushing taxes up and sending private industry away. They don't spend nearly enough on infrastructure, which attracts the private sector and builds the real economy.

"As David Walker, former comptroller general of the US, said at the Regional Plan Association's annual meeting a week ago, nationwide, we are the 'highest in the world' on education. We are 'the highest in the world' on healthcare. 'Nobody comes even close.' On infrastructure, by contrast, we are 'below average' in both critical new investments and in much-needed maintenance spending.

"And, as Democratic governor of Pennsylvania Ed Rendell said at the same conference, when President Dwight Eisenhower left office, infrastructure spending was about 12.5% of non-military domestic spending. Today, it's about 2.5%.

"This shortfall is obvious to anyone who's ridden on an "express train" to the outer boroughs or driven on the Cross Bronx Expressway recently. But in New York, as elsewhere, the stimulus money has just allowed the state to ramp up spending on its wasteful, inhumane Medicaid program and its nosebleed public-school spending.

"Meanwhile, the subways are about to crumble into oblivion -- taking the economy with them. The same is true of decaying infrastructure in California and in aging states across the nation.

"The stimulus was a once-in-a-generation chance to change this. Instead, it made the situation worse."
-- Nicole Gelinas is a contributing editor to City Journal

69. "The Justice Department is asking the Supreme Court to overrule Michigan v. Jackson, the 1986 Supreme Court decision that held that if police may not interrogate a defendant after the right to counsel has attached, if the defendant has a lawyer or has requested a lawyer. This isn't the first time the Justice Department, under President Obama, has sought to limit defendants' rights." -- TalkLeft blog

70. "By any measure, my administration has inherited a fiscal disaster." -- Obama

71. "Ahh, see. I came down here to visit. See this is what happens. I can't end up visiting with you guys and shaking hands if I'm going to get grilled every time I come down here." -- Brushing off questions from the White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House) press corps

72. On Earth Day, Obama took two flights on Air Force One and four on Marine One to get to Iowa, burning more than 9,000 gallons of fuel.

73. "President Obama's plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs for the treatment of troops injured in service has infuriated veterans groups who say the government is morally obligated to pay for service-related medical care." -- Fox News, 3/17

74. "And I believe the nation that invented the automobile cannot walk away from it." -- Obama during his first State Of The Union address. A German invented the automobile


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo41.jpg


75. RALPH PETERS ON: FUMBLING IN AFGHANISTAN, FAKING IT IN PAKISTAN

"We're squandering blood and treasure in Afghanistan. Instead of concentrating fiercely on the vital task of destroying al Qaeda and its friends, the Obama administration's determined to erect a modern nation where no nation exists. Afghanistan isn't a country. It's a dysfunctional reservation inhabited by tribes that hate each other. There's no 'Afghan' identity. And even if our blind-to-reality efforts succeeded perfectly, the result would be meaningless.

"Except as a target range where we can gun down terrorists, Afghanistan doesn't matter. Next door, Pakistan matters immensely. But we don't know what to do about it. With 170 million anti-American Muslims descending into chaos as Pashtuns, Baluchis, Punjabis, Sindhis and others claw each other over the country's shabby remains, Pakistan's corrupt president shrugs, its military cowers, its loathsome intelligence services collude with Islamist extremists, and the safety of its nuclear weapons grows doubtful.
"Pakistan may be this generation's chamber of horrors.

"The Obama administration's response? Drill more wells in the Afghan countryside. Dramatically reinforce our troops in Afghanistan, sticking them with an impossible mission of modernizing a pre-medieval landscape while exposing them at the end of an insecure 1,500-mile supply line through, of all places, Pakistan.

"As for Pakistan itself, the Obama administration wants to send billions of dollars to a thieving government that makes Nigeria's look like a Quaker meeting and to hand Pakistan's military more arms -- weapons that might soon be used against us.

"Pakistan was a bad idea when it was created in 1947. It's a worse one now. Afghanistan wasn't even an idea, just an accident of where other borders ended. We can't 'save' either one -- because neither wants to be saved on our terms.

"Obama said the right things -- that Afghanistan isn't Iraq and that our goal should be the destruction of al Qaeda. But his policies just regurgitate our Iraq strategy (one he opposed) in a profoundly different context, while ambitious generals echo Vietnam-era calls for more forces.

"Our troops will do whatever we ask, to the best of their magnificent abilities. But we should ask them to do things that make sense. We need creative strategic thought, but we're succumbing to sheer inertia. And the presidet's supporters who howled that we should abandon Iraq to concentrate on their candidate's 'good war' don't seem to be volunteering to do any fighting. Menwhle, our presient's trpped himself inside his own campaign promiseing, Vietnam!"

-- Ralph Peters is the author of "Looking for Trouble: Adventures in a BeW"

77. "President Obama failed to consult Congress, as promised, before carving out exceptions to the omnibus spending bill he signed into law -- breaking his own signing-statement rules two days after issuing them -- and raised questions among lawmakers and committees who say the president's objections are unclear at best and a power grab at worst." -- Washington Times, 3/24

78. Adolfo Carrion was confirmed as Director of White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House) Office of Urban Affairs, but is serving under a cloud after allegations that he accepted thousands of dollars in cash from developers whose projects he approved.

79. KYLE SMITH ON: GOING AFTER RUSH LIMBAUGH

"Every so often an unfocused athlete forgets about the field of play and climbs into the stands. Ty Cobb did it. Ron Artest did it. Maybe no one did it with more sick flir than the greasy, furious Hanson Brothers who, in 'Slap Shot,' climbed into the stands to give a beatdown to a fan.

"In March, Barack Obama (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Barack_Obama) sent his own personal Hanson Brothers, Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Rahm_Emanuel) and spokesman Robert Gibbs, out to attack a non-politician -- Rush Limbaugh -- who was sitting innocently in the stands jeering the action. Limbaugh didn't even throw a cup of beer.

"Senior White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House) staffers, who have already fallen into the classic trap of paying more attention to polls than fixing the country's problems, had become obsessed with surveys showing that Limbaugh was an unpopular figure with swing voters. Pretty soon Emanuel and Gibbs developed Limbaugh Tourette's. To paraphrase Joe Biden's witty putdown of Rudy Giuliani, for a few days every sentence they uttered contained three things: a subject, a verb and Rush Limbaugh.

"El Rushbo, chuckling over his cigar as his ratings skyrocketed, could not have been more pleased if a picture had emerged of Obama wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt and burning the American flag on Harvard Square. Even that portion of the public that doesn't like Rush squirmed at the embarrassing spectacle of the president's men going all Mean Girls on an entertainer. George W. Bush (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=George_W.%20Bush)'s spokesmen maintained a dignified silence about Michael Moore. Picture them fanning out over the Sunday talk shows to denounce, and drive up the box-office receipts of, 'Fahrenheit 9/11.' Wouldn't you have loved that, Michael?"
-- Kyle Smith is a Post columnist

80. Forced banks that didn't want TARP money to take it, then added on stipulations about pay and government control after the fact. Secretly forced Bank of America (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Bank_of%20America) to buy Merrill Lynch, then allowed the bank to be criticized for overpaying.

81. "More than 90% of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States," Obama said in Mexico, yet factcheck.org says, "The figure represents only the percentage of crime guns that have been submitted by Mexican officials and traced by U.S. officials. We can find no hard data on the total number of guns actually 'recovered in Mexico,' but US and Mexican officials both say that Mexico recovers more guns that it submits for tracing. Therefore, the percentage of guns 'recovered' and traced to US sources necessarily is less than 90%."

82. Obama: "[Jim Owens, the CEO of Caterpillar, Inc.], said that if Congress passes our plan, this company will be able to rehire some of the folks who were just laid off." Jim Owens: "I think realistically no. The truth is we're going to have more layoffs before we start hiring again."

83. "In America, there is a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive." -- Obama in Strasbourg, France

84. Joe Biden: "If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute certainty, if we stand up there and we really make the tough decisions, there's still a 30% chance we're going to get it wrong."

85. Joe Biden: "You all worked for change. You wanted to see change. Well, that wasn't a hard thing to try to communicate to the American people. Obviously, obviously, we needed a change almost no matter who was running."

86. Joe Biden: "You know, I'm embarrassed. Do you know the Web site number? I should have it in front of me and I don't. I'm actually embarrassed."


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo33.jpg


87. "There are more than 6.5 million trucks in the United States. The program Congress terminated allowed 97 Mexican trucks to roam among them. Ninety-seven! Shutting them out not only undermines NAFTA. It caused Mexico to retaliate with tariffs on 90 goods affecting $2.4 billion in U.S. trade coming out of 40 states." -- Charles Krauthammer, 3/20

88. DAVID M. DRUCKER ON: BOWING TO CONGRESS

"Although the president possesses enormous political capital -- both because of high approval ratings and because his administration is still in its infancy -- he has generally declined to exercise it with Democratic leaders in the House and Senate, including when it comes to crafting legislation key to moving his agenda forward.

"Rather he has allowed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev) to craft legislation as they see fit -- even though the very bills in question were proposed by the president and involve key planks in his agenda. Among them were Obama's signature $787 billion economic stimulus bill, his first major piece of legislation that was signed into law in February; and now health care reform, currently being negotiated on Capitol Hill with minimal input from the White House (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=White_House).

"This soft-pedal style of leadership runs the risk of forcing Obama to embrace legislation constructed for narrow partisan interests rather than in a manner capable of garnering broad bipartisan support. Over time, the public might come to see Obama's deference to Pelosi and Reid as a weakness of leadership not befitting a president in tough times."
-- David M. Drucker is a staff writer for Roll Call

89. "It has become apparent during this process that this will not work for me as I have found that on issues such as the stimulus package and the Census, there are irresolvable conflicts for me." -- Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.), who became the second failed Commerce Secretary nominee

90. In the third sentence of his first speech as president, Obama said, "44 Americans have now taken the presidential oath." The correct number is 43, as Grover Cleveland served twice.

91. The $49 million inauguration -- triple what taxpayers spent at Bush's first inauguration.

92. Giving the Queen of England an iPod full of his own speeches.

93. Three prime-time briefings in his first 100 days, eating into television revenues and this Wednesday pre-empting "American Idol."

94. "The United States government has no interest in running GM. Your [GM] warranty will be safe. In fact, it will be safer than it's ever been, because starting today, the United States government will stand behind your warranty." -- Obama


http://www.nypost.com/photos/galleries/news/nationalnews/pp_20090428_obama100wh/photo16.jpg



95. GM is given $15.4 billion in loans from the government.

96. The Obama Administration is trying to scuttle a lawsuit filed in federal court against Iran by former US embassy hostages. The lawsuit alleges that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was one of the hostage-takers who interrogated the captives.

97. GLENN BECK ON: BAD ECONOMIC PREDICTIONS

"Ten days before his inauguration, the President's chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, Christina Rohmer, released a report describing what to expect economically during the first 100 days and beyond. It presented two starkly different scenarios: one good (if the stimulus were to be passed), and one terrifyingly bad (if we did nothing). Amazingly, the report estimated that if the stimulus package were to pass, the unemployment rate would not go above 8% at any time until at least 2014.

"It's already at 8.5%.

"In fact, while there is an acknowledged level of uncertainty, the projections estimated that the unemployment rate would be lower today if we had done nothing at all. This suggests one of two things: either the administration misjudged the seriousness of our economic problems, or the stimulus plan is actually making things worse. I suspect it's a little of both.

"Remember, when the President's budget was released, he was roundly criticized for his never ending deficits, even under his own optimistic scenarios for growth. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Congressional_Budget%20Office) projected deficits that were even uglier. But, if the President and his economic planners were this far off, this soon, how much worse does the future look now?

"The election was supposed to bring 'change,' but I was hoping for more than the letter after the President's name, the positivity of the media coverage, and the hypoallergenic qualities of the White House puppy. President Obama didn't get us into this situation, but so far he's doubling down on the same spending philosophy that did. Common sense tells us that new debt is not the cure for old debt. No matter what the slogans say, that won't change in 100 days or 100 years."
-- Glenn Beck is the host of the "Glenn Beck" show, weekdays at 5 p.m. on Fox News.

98. "Education Secretary Arne Duncan has decided not to admit any new students to the D.C. voucher program, which allows low-income children to attend private schools ... For all the talk about putting children first, it's clear that the special interests that have long opposed vouchers are getting their way." -- Washington Post, 4/11

99. Obama enrolled his daughters in a DC private school.

100. "Don't think we're not keeping score, brother." -- Obama to Rep. Peter DeFazio, after the Democratic congressman voted against the stimulus bill.Some of these are obviously a little more significant than others.

chefTENGU
04-29-2009, 18:24
I don't see how some of those can be construed as "errors." For example, #14, #70, etc). Most others are questionable at best (which means it's the sort of thing an embittered conservative would accept as a blatant error but a flaming liberal would accept as common sense), or heavily open to interpretation/debate.

Or they're not full errors by themselves, but rather become apparent errors when taken in context with another "error." Which sounds like cheating to me.

Of course, then I saw that Joe Scarborough and Glenn Beck were contributors to it. That explains a lot.

Z
04-29-2009, 18:29
Oh, no doubt. Some are flat-out dumb as points. I mean, nothing bad has happened yet from his relaxing the Cuba embargo, yet they list it twice as mistakes.

The point is just as it was before: It's ridiculous to pin every little thing on the President just because he's the president. Liberals did it to Bush. Conservatives are doing it to Obama. No matter which side it comes from, it's still ridiculous.

chefTENGU
04-29-2009, 18:36
No argument from me there. Although I do think it's funny how the power shift is bringing out hypocrisy from both sides.

Seegtease
04-29-2009, 19:01
WTFL;DR

Z
04-29-2009, 19:10
WTFL;DR

http://www.wtfl.ca/

The Winnipeg Touch Football League... Doctor.

Gio Takahashi
04-29-2009, 19:11
KRD.. Oh wait. I'm admin. I'm free from this.

Seegtease
04-29-2009, 19:14
Of course you are. GIO TAKAHASHI

I STILL have karma problems occasionally.

Gio Takahashi
04-29-2009, 19:17
I know, Karma's a bitch, eh?

Seegtease
04-29-2009, 20:18
ur mom

Bloodcinder
05-17-2009, 13:54
It seems that somebody wrote in to PostSecret agreeing with me.

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5882/obush.jpg

Z
09-18-2009, 13:45
I've tried to not make too many Obama criticisms on here because any successes and failures in his administration seem to be glaring ones that people can recognize without spotlighting them.

However, recently I'm sure many of you heard about the "You lie!" guy (Rep. Joe Wilson, R-SC) who disrupted the president's speech just a little while ago. For those who didn't hear about it, you can see the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHKSHvMRWE

Joe Wilson apologized for the outbust immediately after the speech and Obama accepted the apology. Then the democrats tried to push Wilson to apologize to the House, itself, for the outburst. Wilson refused and said the issue was over and that he had already apologized to the President.

Well, some of the Democrats didn't like this so they put it to a vote. This controversial vote was to determine whether or not Wilson would be rebuked and chastised for his actions. Most of the Republicans and even some of the Democrats felt that this was a horrible waste of time and taxpayer dollars.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090915/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_heckling
"We're here on some witch hunt, some partisan stunt that the American people are not going to respect," said Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio. Visitors in the gallery applauded that remark, drawing a warning from the chair.

One of the Democrats voting "present," Barney Frank of Massachusetts, said, "I think it's bad precedent to put us in charge of deciding whether people act like jerks. I don't have time to monitor everyone's civility."

The Office of the House Historian said the resolution marked the first time in the 220-year history of the House that a member had been admonished for speaking out while the president was giving an address.The vote passed and Joe Wilson was rebuked.

The reason I bring this entire thing up is because it seems that Wilson wasn't entirely wrong with his accusation that the President wasn't being truthful.

When the president said, "The [health care] reforms I am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally" it was met with Wilson's "You lie!" outburst.

Well apparently illegal immigrants won't get coverage as illegal immigrants. That part's true. Instead, Obama plans to legalize any illegal immigrants already in the country and then give them coverage.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/18/obama-ties-immigration-to-health-care-battle/?feat=home_cube_position1
President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

Republicans said that amounts to an amnesty, calling it a backdoor effort to make sure current illegal immigrants get health care.Apparently there were pre-existing rules in place that bar representatives from calling the President a liar so I can't be too upset that he got some flak for that but it's also a it strange that they made such a big deal about it when technically Wilson was right. The President does intend to provide coverage to illegal immigrants, just not while they are still under illegal status.

Honestly, I'm not that motivated one way or the other on Universal Healthcare. Both sides of the argument are flawed. But I am getting a little tired of hearing Obama say one thing and doing another. He's not the first politician to do it and he certainly won't be the last but it's definitely annoying.

If someone says "You're going to give illegal immigrants health care coverage," then I'd rather he just say "Well, we will be legalizing them first, getting them documented, taxing them, and then we will be covering them" rather than just "That's not true." Otherwise it just seems shady.

I mean, granted, it's probably the right move to make considering deportation is only a temporary solution to an ongoing problem, but I'm just tired of the misleading responses.

Arainach
09-18-2009, 14:07
Because clearly, saying "we should reform immigration" is the same thing as saying "we should give health benefits to illegals". Reforming the system and providing a path for them to reach legal citizenship is not the same issue at all.

And RE: The House vote. First, the house/senate vote on stupid "condemning" and "praising" stuff all the time, so it's not like this is out of the ordinary. Second, I'd argue that it's necessary to show that they're not going to stand for bullshit like this. In 8 years of Bush, Bush gave a large number of speeches, several with content that actually WAS factually incorrect and several that were more offensive, and NEVER did a Democrat interrupt his speech with such an outburst. Someone needed to remind the Republicans what the "civil" part of "civil discourse" means.

Z
09-18-2009, 16:26
Because clearly, saying "we should reform immigration" is the same thing as saying "we should give health benefits to illegals". President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.^ This is the part I am talking about.

In other words: "We should reform immigration so that we can legalize illegal immigrants that are already here and then give them healthcare coverage."

And, again, I restate that I'm not against this idea as, currently, it's probably the only one that may have any form of success, especially with the acquired ability to tax said immigrants. I'm just saying that I'd rather have such a plan stated plainly rather than just "illegal immigrants won't get coverage". Clearly they will, they just simply won't be deemed as illegal anymore.

As far as the outburst, talking during a speech and even criticizing a president during a speech has been deemed as civil under certain guidelines for quite a while. The only reason it was punishable in this instance is due to the type of criticism that was made. Specifically, congress can't call the President a liar.

House Rules Committee Chairwoman Louise Slaughter (D-NY) has released a helpful, updated primer (http://www.rules.house.gov/archives/house_comm_dec.htm) for members regarding their conduct on the floor and in committees.

Especially useful: The section on how to properly insult the executive branch in the in the chamber.

"Disgrace" and "nitwits" -- okay.
"Liar" or "sexual misconduct" -- ixnay.

Under section 370 of the House Rules and Manual it has been held that a Member could:

• refer to the government as “something hated, something oppressive.”
• refer to the President as “using legislative or judicial pork.”
• refer to a Presidential message as a “disgrace to the country.”
• refer to unnamed officials as “our half-baked nitwits handling foreign affairs.”

Likewise, it has been held that a member could not:

• call the president a “liar.”
• call the president a “hypocrite.”
• describe the president’s veto of a bill as “cowardly.”
• charge that the president has been “intellectually dishonest.”
• refer to the president as “giving aid and comfort to the enemy.”
• refer to alleged “sexual misconduct on the president’s part.”But don't trick yourself into thinking that Democrats have never heckled or had an outburst at one of Bush's speeches.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Dems_heckled_Bush_but_Wilson_was_different.html
Two examples:
In 2004, Democrats delivered a “Chorus Of Boos” during Bush's Bush’s State Of The Union when he called for renewal of the Patriot Act., according to the Washington Times.

In 2005, Dems howled, hissed and shouted "No!" when Bush pushed for Social Security reform in the SOU: "Foreshadowing the contentiousness of the coming debate, Democrats broke decorum and booed twice," according to the National Journal.

At the time, CNN's Bill Schneider remarked, “It was unusual. I had never heard it at least at that level before. The Democrats clearly were booing, heckling, saying no when the president talked about the crisis in Social Security."The only reason it wasn't an issue then is because their heckling followed the guidelines above and, like I said, I understand why he got flak for it. I'm just not comfortable with the idea that the vote, or any similar vote, had to go down with our tax dollars sponsoring it. Clearly there is more pressing issues in our nation.

chefTENGU
09-18-2009, 16:35
Of course the Congressional reprimand was stupid.

So was Joe Wilson's own house proposal a few years back that John Kerry be forced to apologize for what he had said about how we were fighting the Vietnam War back in the 70s.

Z
09-18-2009, 16:39
Agreed

Killer_Man_
09-18-2009, 16:54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn9UCBNMtCs&feature=related

That's how i feel about illegal immigrants. If they come here illegally they get pushed out and back to their own country.

But that's just how I've always felt but I guess you can't find them all so the best thing to do is to naturalize them and make them pay taxes. xD

Arainach
09-18-2009, 17:05
But that's just how I've always felt but I guess you can't find them all so the best thing to do is to naturalize them and make them pay taxes. xD "If you can't fix the entire problem, why even try" is flawed logic. That said, I'm still up in the air myself as to whether trying to evict them all or trying to naturalize them all is the better. I'm in favor of whichever is cheaper, which probably becomes naturalization. Last thing we need is a failed war on Mexicans to add to the failed "War on Drugs" and "War on Terror" money pits.

chefTENGU
09-18-2009, 17:21
I dunno, the last war we had with Mexico went pretty well for us. Unless you don't think Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona were worth the effort.

Arainach
09-18-2009, 18:44
War on Mexico is easy. Except for the part where any territory we take from them at this point is a net loss. War on Mexicans, particularly ones in the US, is a lot tougher and involves a lot of expensive policing, discrimination lawsuits, civil liberties infringements, and other unpleasantries.

chefTENGU
09-18-2009, 20:14
I was being facetious, teehee.

I just like how you said "War on Mexicans." We also had a tiny one back around the turn of the 20th century against Poncho Villa that didn't go all that well for us.