Boy Scouts

[deathofcheese]

I was reading a thread on BoingBoing this morning from a story posted yesterday (http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/28/boy-scouts-award-for.html) about the Cub Scouts gaining a belt loop focused on playing video games. The belt loop itself actually focuses on a lot of stuff other than outright playing of video games, things like time management, talking about rating systems, etc., but the thread seemed split down the middle between people thinking it was a good idea for the organization to at least show support for responsible practices involved with this popular activity that, really, doesn't have much at all to do with the program-at-large, and people thinking it's a nanny state expansion into territory that isn't outdoor wilderness survival stuff.

Beyond that, there's a further division of people into those that think the BSA is a bigoted group that universally forbids homosexuality and atheism while at the same time serving as a breeding ground for pedophilia, and those, largely the only ones with experience in the program themselves, that say "yeah, that stuff's there, but it's not the whole program, nor even unique to the program".

I guess I'm being a bit naive, but I was pretty shocked to hear some of the nasty things they were talking about, especially when their only experience with it was hearing news stories about scandals. One of the moderators even got started on it, and seemed to blatantly ignore first-hand stories of flaming leaders and entire troops that weren't church-centered or that Troops/Packs largely selectively apply rules set at the National or even Regional level in favor of pointing to a couple of stories about policy setting or scandal outbreak.

Anyways, how does everyone else feel about it? I know there are several Scouts here. I myself am an Eagle Scout (I think Ary is too), and I was involved in the program since elementary school. There were some funny things that I saw and some weird opinions I was exposed to, but I don't really see where people can be justified sitting on their high horse vilifying the entire group because of wackos that apathy has let get into a sensitive position. I'm sure most of the knots and skills I learned have been forgotten, but it was probably one of the best experiences I had throughout secondary school and probably one of the best teachers of life skills I've ever had. If/when I have kids* I'll certainly make sure they have the opportunity to go through the program like I did.

* that are male. Girls can get involved in Boy Scouts, but as part of what's called a Venture Group, or a group that focuses more on camping and other activities than it does ranks and merit badges and stuff.

[Tiger]

My brother is an Eagle Scout and i doubt any of the scandal stuff happened in his group! I always wanted to join but being a girl, pre venture group, and just lazy never really pursued it.

I'll also enroll any of my kids in cub scouts and whatever the elementary level for venture scouts is and if they like it keep them going through eagle!

[Seegtease]

No organization that works with children is going to be able to avoid certain employees exploiting their position to satisfy their own pedophilia. It's bound to be found in even the most reputable group. In general, these incidents aren't the fault of the organization of the whole, unless they become so frequent that it's clear that the organization has inadequate screening methods. In that case, they'll need to fix something.

But I don't believe that to be the case with boy scouts. As for anti-atheist or something, I don't know if this is the case either, but I think certain groups should be allowed to be selective in their members. But I'm not sure that Boy Scouts is legally allowed to, so I hope they aren't.

[chefTENGU]

Going solely on that episode of South Park where Big Gay Al got booted from being a boy scout leader (only to get replaced by a boy-hungry pedophile), I'm pretty sure that the Boy Scouts of America is a private institution, which means that they have every right to deny membership to whomever they choose.

It was a good episode. The moral was "Let private institutions decide for themselves how they want to conduct themselves, and don't assume that all homosexuals forever want to rape your children."

[deathofcheese]

BSA is a private institution and they do reserve the right to act according to whatever morals they have set up. They're sometimes douchebags and unethical about it, but that's their right, being a private institution. One poster on the BB thread pointed out that his troop was pretty much all atheist and one or two of their leaders were flaming homosexuals. However, they were obviously responsible enough to know that boys are not appropriate people to talk about that lifestyle to, so they kept it to themselves and no one had a problem with it.

As far as the religious issue goes, part of the Oath is "...duty to God and my country..." and the last point of the Law is that a Scout is Reverent. The Law point could be taken to say that even if you don't have religious beliefs you are still courteous to allow other people to practice their own religious beliefs. However, outside of the one part of the Oath that mentions it, nowhere does the BSA require you to have their faith or to even have a faith. Indeed, as part of the international community, other Boy Scout troops obviously can't be expected to have faith in God, so who's to say that you need to have faith in God to be a Boy Scout?

Like I said, pretty much all of BSA's problems stem from a couple bad apples (to use an incredibly tired phrase) and some bleeding heart martyrs that are out to make a name for themselves politically.

[Arainach]

My brother's an Eagle scout; I only made Star. I did it until I was 15-16, and while I'm glad in retrospect that I did it for the time I did, it wasn't really my thing at that point in life.

Do I think the National Council has some misguided beliefs and policies? Yes. Personally, I would prefer to see the Boy Scouts become focused more on the environmental, leadership, and service aspects rather than on the religious aspect and all the baggage it entails. I think at its core it serves a good purposes and is a worthwhile organization to exist and to join, but it'd be nice if they could get their priorities in order.

[Seegtease]

I think at its core it serves a good purposes and is a worthwhile organization to exist and to join, but it'd be nice if they could get their priorities in order.

Well, to say something like DoC cited: "...Duty to God and my country..." is supposed to be a reason to try harder to achieve the true goals, not a hindrance. Some people do better when they feel like their work is the pleasure of a higher power.