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Gio Takahashi
06-17-2008, 10:57
I'm no Nazi, says mom of 7-year-old with swastika
Manitoba mother now fighting to get kids back after seizure by province
Jun 11, 2008 04:30 AM
Steve Lambert
The Canadian Press

WINNIPEG?She freely admits that her 7-year-old daughter was sent to school sporting a swastika ? the Nazi emblem adopted as a symbol of racially motivated hate groups.

She says she's not a neo-Nazi, just proud of her northern European heritage.

Now she's fighting to get her children back from Manitoba Child and Family Services, and finding herself at the centre of a case that has raised questions about whether children are affected by parental views that may be extreme.

In an interview yesterday, the woman, who under provincial law cannot be identified, said her politics are misunderstood.

"This isn't, you know, a bunch of ... skinheads running around the streets in neo-Nazi gear," she said. "It's not about that. It's about being proud of who you are and what you are, and I don't have a problem with anybody feeling pride in who they are."

School officials called social services in March after the girl showed up with what police call "hate-related drawings" on her body, including a swastika. Child welfare workers removed the girl and a 2-year-old boy from the woman's Winnipeg home. The government is now asking the courts for permanent guardianship of the children.

An affidavit from a child welfare worker cites the "behaviour and associations" of the woman and her husband as one reason for the removal, as well as drug and alcohol use.

The mother remembers the day her child left for school with a swastika on her body. She wouldn't discuss details but hinted she had not drawn the symbol.

"I worked a lot. I'm not going to say I was ignorant to it, 'cause I wasn't," she said. "That's all I'm going to ... comment."

The woman says she threw her husband ? the stepfather of the girl and biological father of the boy ? out of the family home three days after seeing court documents outlining the case against the family.

She says she has always worked long hours at her job in the restaurant industry to provide for her children and has never let her politics affect how her kids are raised.

She is vague about her political beliefs.

"I would never consider myself a neo-Nazi," she said. "I consider myself a proud Scottish chick."

She says she does not belong to any group, yet has a personal belief in white pride and talks collectively about a feeling that "people are very ignorant to our politics because of media bias."

She also defends the use of the swastika, pointing out that it is based on an ancient symbol for prosperity.

She rejects a suggestion that someone seeing it drawn on a child would be unlikely to interpret it as anything other than a Nazi image.

So how far can parents go in teaching their children what they think is right?

Harvey Frankel, a professor of social work at the University of Manitoba, said earlier this week that the government could face an uphill battle trying to persuade a judge to remove children strictly because of their parents' political beliefs.

Manitoba guidelines allow child welfare workers to intervene in any situation where there is concern for the safety or well-being of a child. That could cover instances where the controversial beliefs cause the children problems at school or elsewhere.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/440948

Killer_Man_
06-17-2008, 14:00
That's anther problem. I could draw some symbol on me, but yet if you are of certain race, you get automatically blamed for the worse. Certain symbols and words had one meaning and gets skewered from some bad point in history.

DoomKitty
06-17-2008, 17:59
A swastika marked on people and things was to denote good luck in a lot of cultures.

And theres a difference between the two.

deathofcheese
06-17-2008, 19:12
How does being of Scottish descent mean you can be proud of your "northern European heritage"? And how is Scotland associated with swastikas anyways? I didn't think the Scots, Celts or Welsh had the swastika in their culture.

I kinda think she's doing this to see how much she can toe the line saying "OMG IT'S PART OF MY HERITAGE! YOU ARE RACIST IF YOU DENY ME MY CULTURE!" I do know that the swastika was corrupted for use by the Nazi party, but I doubt that it was much used until the Nazi party adopted it, or has seen much use since.

Seegtease
06-17-2008, 21:22
I think she's just testing to see how far she can push things. I also think that unless said school has a dress code, kid can wear what she wants anywhere. If there is a code, take if off or leave the school.

Anywhere else, though, she should be free to wear what she wants, as long as there are no violations of public profanity laws or something. A symbol does not fit as such, even if it reminds people of a bad society.

Killer_Man_
06-18-2008, 02:06
I think she's just testing to see how far she can push things. I also think that unless said school has a dress code, kid can wear what she wants anywhere. If there is a code, take if off or leave the school.

Anywhere else, though, she should be free to wear what she wants, as long as there are no violations of public profanity laws or something. A symbol does not fit as such, even if it reminds people of a bad society.

Good thing my friend isn't here cause he'd be like, "Uh, school is public domain and the rules of dress code should be from what you can look like on the street."

Which is true but they have dress codes so the kids look decently. Basically don't look like a whore, don't wear cigs/booze references, bad shirts(Cussing, racist and etc) and etc.

Seegtease
06-18-2008, 02:35
I don't care what your friend thinks it should be, schools can enforce a dress code if they so choose.

SpaceProg
06-18-2008, 02:40
A swastika marked on people and things was to denote good luck in a lot of cultures.

And theres a difference between the two.

You're very close, however it's when the Manji symbol is reversed does it become a swastika. A swastika's "legs" run to the right. A manji's goes to the left.

Aequitas
06-18-2008, 04:28
Yes, but no sself respecting neo nazi would let their child walk into school with a swazi inked on them. They keep that stuff hidden. Pride goes a long way yes... but they have morales that override that

DoomKitty
06-18-2008, 04:37
You're very close, however it's when the Manji symbol is reversed does it become a swastika. A swastika's "legs" run to the right. A manji's goes to the left.

I wasn't trying to be perfect I don't study the art of swastika's ;)

Killer_Man_
06-18-2008, 11:28
I don't care what your friend thinks it should be, schools can enforce a dress code if they so choose.

I know that, I am just saying that I just recently had an arguement about it to him, the 'perfectionist friend'. Chef knows what I am talking about cause I posted about it not too long ago. About how 'perfect' his english must be, his thoughts and how 'right' he is all the time.

Even for public schools they have dress codes cause they want the kids to look decent. If you want to look like you came out of a whore house or from the street, do it on your own time. Right?

Besides, that is why they have PTA meetings and etc so discuss how they can improve the school for their kids or what rules to establish.

Gio Takahashi
06-18-2008, 11:52
back in middle school, I recalled that a friend of mine got in trouble for drawing various symbols, including swastika.

Some people just take things way too far.

And I agree, schools would definitely have a say on what kids can wear that is called a dress code, most schools have that. Just because it is a "public school" doesn't mean the kids are free to wear and do what they want.

deathofcheese
06-18-2008, 19:45
If you were going to choose to represent your heritage, why not use something less offensive to other people?

South Carolina only recently took the Confederate flag down from the state house, but "compromised" to leaving it flying on a memorial on state house grounds. While the Confederate flag does stand for a lot of heritage of the South, and isn't nearly as offensive as a swastika (even non-swastika swastikas), of lot of people (including myself sometimes) get offended at the Confederate flag (to me, it goes kind of like "you lost. get over it already. it's not a pride thing, it's [largely] not a cultural thing, it's an ignorant white trash thing"). However, the Confederate flag is a viable cultural heritage symbol and, when people have a valid claim, isn't offensive. But the other 75% of the time you see it flown in the South, it's just used as a label for shit like "The South's gonna rise again, duh-huh."

Seegtease
06-18-2008, 19:48
Even for public schools they have dress codes cause they want the kids to look decent. If you want to look like you came out of a whore house or from the street, do it on your own time. Right?

That's only part of the purpose of the dress code. Another part is to keep vulgarities and sometimes they don't like logos for whatever reason.

But a very big reason for dress codes, or uniforms, is so that financial barriers don't form. Some parents can afford big name clothing, some cannot (or will not on principle). There should not be barriers between youth based on what their parents can or cannot afford, and this is the number one reason I will support dress code. It prevents this type of unfair discrimination. And they are kids, you can't expect them to know better. That's why adults need to take responsibility and prevent it from happening by instituting dress codes.

Killer_Man_
06-19-2008, 00:26
Yes, I know but I just remember the discussion of my friend had recently and I told him the samething and he went on and on. I just put him on ignore for a few days cause of it cause the only way to stop him from monologuing(sp?)

And yes I know but I just threw that out cause i find it funny on how much crap he throws in cause it's a 'public place.'

It reminds me when the mall kicked out some mall rats. They were 18+ and actually tried to sue them, they lost cause it is a PUBLIC MALL but the land is owned by someone else. Thus being they make the rules.

Aequitas
06-19-2008, 08:38
Just because some people find an image hurtful justifies removing it from existance and banning people from expressing THEIR right to support an IMAGE?
That statement in its self completely defies rights of freedom.
Its just a symbol. If a person wishes to support a symbol it should be their own wishes and it should be their decision on their own.

You dont see people complaining about the Malcom X Flag. I for one find THAT IMAGE offensive. But you dont see anything happening about having that image banned.

Yea the confederate flag... which supports a part of American history is banned from use in alot of states now. All because people cant let go of the past.

As for the Swazi. Yea Damn, the Nazis used it as from of their symbols. Im German and I can admit that. I can also admit that some of the decisions that Nazis made were wrong, I agree.

But German soldiers should the Swazi before Hitler. WWI It was decorated on every vehicle. Every Infantry soldier had a Swazi patch on their uniform. They wore it for pride of who they are and the fact its a good luck charm.

Not cause they meant it too be turned into the symbol that has cause so much uproar in this retarded world we live in....

The point is.... It shouldnt matter what a symbol was used from in the PAST. That was the past not NOW.

Neo Nazis rarely use that symbol. I know for a fact. They use the WS Cross.
Red teardrop with either an Iron cross or the four L shaped outline of a standard cross with a circle going around that. That is a symbol of Hate now. The Swazi died years ago.

The reason why it pisses me off so much about how people brand the swazi as something it shouldnt be anymore is cause I plan on getting one inked on me.
Because it stands for Pride. For knowing who you are and being happy about it.
Not "Yea I got this swazi inked on me cause I wanna go around offing every Jewish person I see" (no offense) It means "Hey I know who I am and im proud of it."

Now im going to go stab my roomate who has left me with 6 hours of sleep in the last week....

Killer_Man_
06-19-2008, 12:15
Ae: The difference between a Swatiska(sp?) is the way the arms run as SP has already said.

Besides, it happened in Canada thus being not much esle to say.

SpaceProg
06-19-2008, 14:28
From what I've read the direction the arms go on a manji also determine its meaning. The non-swastika direction denotes the sun, good fortune, happiness and life.
The swastika direction of the symbol denotes the exact opposites of the above. Whether Hitler knew this or not is unknown. Quite ironic though.

Aequitas
06-19-2008, 15:54
That is false. The Manji never had a reverse meaning. Thats just something put up after what happened. The exact reason why the symbol was adopted by the GERMANS was cause it represented good fortune and luck.

SpaceProg
06-19-2008, 16:20
That is false. The Manji never had a reverse meaning. Thats just something put up after what happened. The exact reason why the symbol was adopted by the GERMANS was cause it represented good fortune and luck.

Interesting... My bad then.