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View Full Version : SC throws out man's conviction because his ex - who he MURDERED - couldn't be cross-examined


Arainach
06-27-2008, 11:01
If you need any proof on why Conservatives are just plain fucked-up and should never, ever be elected to the courts:

Source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/25/AR2008062502614.html?hpid=topnews)

The Supreme Court yesterday threw out the conviction of a man accused of murdering his ex-girlfriend because the defendant could not challenge an incriminating account she gave the police weeks before her death.

The 6 to 3 ruling drew howls from domestic violence opponents who said the decision could lead to perverse situations in which criminals would reap a legal "windfall" after killing their victims.

The case revolved around the Sixth Amendment, which affords people the bedrock right to confront and cross-examine witnesses who give testimony against them. At issue is whether defendants forfeit their confrontation rights by doing harm to people whose statements are introduced in judicial proceedings.

Typically, courts have carved out few Sixth Amendment exceptions, giving leeway only to deathbed statements and to accounts by witnesses who are kept away from the courthouse by defendants seeking to thwart the judicial process.

The facts before the court were stark. Dwayne Giles shot his ex-girlfriend Brenda Avie six times in September 2002, killing her and then fleeing the scene. At trial, Giles argued that he fired the weapon out of fear, in self-defense and with his eyes closed. Avie's wounds indicated that she was turned to her side and lying on the ground during at least part of the attack, according to the court record.

Three weeks before her death, Avie tearfully told a police officer responding to a domestic violence call that Giles had choked her and threatened to slash her with a knife. The trial court allowed the statements to be introduced at Giles's murder trial under a California law that allows juries to hear such threats when a witness is unavailable to testify in person.

The California Supreme Court later upheld Giles's conviction, reasoning that he had forfeited his Sixth Amendment right to confront witnesses by killing his ex-girlfriend and rendering her unable to appear in court.

But a majority of justices at the Supreme Court yesterday wiped away the conviction and sent the case back to lower courts.

"Domestic violence is an intolerable offense that legislatures may choose to combat through many means," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote for the majority. "But for that serious crime, as for others, abridging the constitutional rights of criminal defendants is not in the State's arsenal."

Scalia added that the lower courts were free to consider whether in shooting Avie, Giles may have intended to dissuade her from notifying authorities about the abuse, a factor that should be considered as part of the Sixth Amendment analysis.

Activists who decry more than 1,500 deaths and 2 million injuries each year stemming from domestic violence expressed disappointment in the opinion. Officials at the Family Violence Prevention Fund warned the decision could make it less likely that victims will reach out to authorities for help. In many such cases, they said, the victim is the lone witness to a crime.

Justice David H. Souter, joined by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, agreed with Scalia's historical analysis but said prosecutors could introduce evidence that defendants had engaged in a pattern of domestic violence as a substitute for their intent, perhaps opening the door to a finding that the alleged abuser had forfeited his right to confront a missing witness.

In a toughly worded dissent, Justice Stephen G. Breyer said the majority was overanalyzing the thin historical record and overcomplicating the analysis.

"The defendant here knew that murdering his ex-girlfriend would keep her from testifying; and that knowledge is sufficient to show the intent that law ordinarily demands," Breyer wrote. He was joined by Justice John Paul Stevens and Anthony M. Kennedy.

Richard D. Friedman, a law professor at the University of Michigan who filed a court brief supporting the conviction, said yesterday's ruling was "very unfortunate." Friedman predicted that the decision would usher in a wave of litigation over the "psychology of the abuser," the extent of domestic abuse and whether the abuser attempted to isolate the victim from police, a factor that could erode the Sixth Amendment protection. I'm truly at a loss for words.

RonDo
06-27-2008, 11:06
Now that it is back to the lower courts, they'll have to figure out a way to get him.

Then what the heck is up with Ginsburg? She is hardly conservative..far from it.

Bloodcinder
06-27-2008, 11:09
The important thing is that it's going back to court, where they can explicitly show that he killed her to silence her and where he will be convicted again.

deathofcheese
06-27-2008, 17:53
I'm not really sure what's going on. He can't get convicted for the murder of his ex because she's not there to testify against him...? Or is it that one of the pieces of evidence used against him, her testimony from a few years before her death, can't be used because it was introduced after her death? That doesn't make sense at all. Doesn't providing her earlier testimony establish that he had a history of violence? How is doing that not legal, or in contest here?

Bloodcinder
06-27-2008, 17:58
It's purely procedural. All they have to do is restructure the case such that they don't present her complain to the police officer. It doesn't sound like that need that for a conviction anyway.

Killer_Man_
06-27-2008, 17:59
I think they can't get him for abusing his gf but they can get him for murder?

deathofcheese
06-27-2008, 18:08
But how is including that testimony from before she died not allowable? She gave it to police officers responding to a domestic violence call, so while it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with her murder, a few years later, it does show that he had a propensity towards violence with her.

Killer_Man_
06-27-2008, 18:13
Because the laws are stupid. We would have 100 guilty people go than to put someone to death or in jail who is innocent. :X

Bloodcinder
06-27-2008, 18:16
SE, depends on if it was hearsay or if it was a report.

KM, I don't think you'd feel the same way if you were accused of a crime you didn't commit.

deathofcheese
06-27-2008, 18:25
Three weeks before her death, Avie tearfully told a police officer responding to a domestic violence call that Giles had choked her and threatened to slash her with a knife. The trial court allowed the statements to be introduced at Giles's murder trial under a California law that allows juries to hear such threats when a witness is unavailable to testify in person.
Sounds like a statement/report to me. Still, I agree, it doesn't sound like he's getting out of charges of killing her. Shooting someone multiple times "in self defense" after they had already fallen to the ground doesn't really sound right.

Bloodcinder
06-27-2008, 18:29
This kind of stuff happens all the time. That it's been reported is just sensationalism.

Arainach
06-28-2008, 01:21
Because the laws are stupid. We would have 100 guilty people go than to put someone to death or in jail who is innocent. :XAnd I wouldn't have it any other way. That's the way a sane justice system should run. Beyond a reasonable doubt and all.

Gio Takahashi
06-28-2008, 02:39
Well, as long as it's still in the court....

Killer_Man_
06-28-2008, 07:22
And I wouldn't have it any other way. That's the way a sane justice system should run. Beyond a reasonable doubt and all.

And, the way you started your intro post, you seem flabbergasted or even in shock on how the case was being handle. Like the courts couldn't do what they were suppose to.

Charlie
06-28-2008, 09:51
Long as it's in Court still, and he's getting a murder charge in the end, I've got no complaints. The Court procedures can be just as hellish as Prison, from what I've seen. So, hey. Win both ways, right? Assuming both work out..

deathofcheese
06-28-2008, 12:13
Long as it's in Court still, and he's getting a murder charge in the end, I've got no complaints. The Court procedures can be just as hellish as Prison, from what I've seen. So, hey. Win both ways, right? Assuming both work out..

Yeah, they'll suck up taxpayer money and the court's time in the courts just as well as they will in prison.

And, the way you started your intro post, you seem flabbergasted or even in shock on how the case was being handle. Like the courts couldn't do what they were suppose to.

It's still a shock to see how someone has taken advantage of this loophole. No matter how the court system works, people are going to find ways to take advantage of it, but it's supposedly better morally this way. Personally, I'd much rather go to trial and prove that all I did was be uneducated about filing income taxes correctly than be thrown in prison immediately for not paying income tax for the last couple decades.

Arainach
06-28-2008, 13:45
And, the way you started your intro post, you seem flabbergasted or even in shock on how the case was being handle. Like the courts couldn't do what they were suppose to.Ignoring legally-obtained evidence isn't exactly the way to get things rolling. I understand that cross-examination is a valuable thing, but generally there should be an exception for 'unless the witness is dead' and ESPECIALLY 'unless the witness is dead and the cross-examiner is in court over or convicted of the death of the witness'

Bloodcinder
06-28-2008, 14:52
No, they can't do that. I saw it on Law & Order: SVU.