Running Mates

[Z]

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1816620,00.html

Former presidential candidate John Edwards and former Georgia Senator Sam Nunn are on a list of potential running mates for Democrat Barack Obama, according to a Michigan Congresswoman.

Representative Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, who leads the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC), said on Thursday that members of her caucus suggested the two at a meeting with the officials who are vetting candidates. The vetting team, Caroline Kennedy and Eric Holder, indicated that the two were on the list.

Cheeks Kilpatrick said, "Former Senator Sam Nunn's name has come up, as well as John Edwards' name has come up among our CBC members. I reported that to them and they had both of those names on their list."
Kennedy and Holder have been meeting with members of Congress for their input.Nothing is official yet but for Obama, it appears Nunn and Edwards are currently at the top of the list.

Who would you like to see as the
running mates in their year's election?

WHY?

[Bloodcinder]

All I can say is that if Obama picks Edwards I will have one more reason to be afraid of the election and if he picks Nunn let's see how the two opposing views on DADT will mesh.

[Arainach]

I'd still prefer Dodd, but either of those 2 could potentially work.

[deathofcheese]

Wasn't there some computer algorithm that determined the best running mate for either party would be Colin Powell?

[Z]

If there was, I didn't see it. Anyone hear who McCain is looking at?

Considering, head to head, McCain seems to fail compared to Obama as far as public opinion seems to be concerned, who would McCain have to run with to even stand a chance?

[Killer_Man_]

I have no idea who those two running mates are.

[Bloodcinder]

Considering, head to head, McCain seems to fail compared to Obama as far as public opinion seems to be concerned, who would McCain have to run with to even stand a chance?
Michael Cera. He's the only person everybody loves.

[Z]

I have no idea who those two running mates are.

Here ya go ;)



http://lighthousepatriotjournal.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/john-edwards-thumb.jpg

Political positions

Edwards promotes programs to eliminate poverty in the United States, is pro-choice, and supports "College for Everyone" initiatives. He has endorsed efforts to slow down global warming.

Although Edwards initially supported the Iraq War, he later re-evaluated his position and in November 2005 wrote an op-ed in The Washington Post in which he said he regretted voting for the Iraq War Resolution, and discussed three solutions for success in the conflict. He has denounced the "troop surge" in Iraq, is a proponent of withdrawal, and has urged Congress to withhold funding for the war without a withdrawal timetable.

Edwards argues in favor of creating one million housing vouchers over five years in order to place poor people in middle-class neighborhoods. Edwards has stated, "If we truly believe that we are all equal, then we should live together too."

Edwards has a universal health care plan that requires all Americans to purchase health care insurance, "requires that everybody get preventive care," and requires employers to provide health care insurance or be taxed to fund public health care. He supports a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants, is opposed to a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, and supports the repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/images/event_images/videostills/2007-06-25-npp/nunn.jpg

General Info

Samuel Augustus Nunn, Jr. (born September 8, 1938) is an American lawyer and politician. Currently the co-chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI), a charitable organization working to reduce the global threats from nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, Nunn served for 24 years as a United States Senator from Georgia (1972 until 1997) as a member of the Democratic Party. His political experience and credentials on national defense reportedly put him into consideration as a potential running mate for Democratic candidate John Kerry in the 2004 Presidential election. There has also been speculation that he could become the running mate of Democratic candidate Barack Obama in 2008.


Political Career

During his tenure in the U.S. Senate, Nunn served as chairman of the powerful U.S. Senate Committee on Armed Services and the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. He also served on the Intelligence and Small Business Committees. His legislative achievements include the landmark Department of Defense Reorganization Act, drafted with the late Senator Barry Goldwater, and the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, which provides assistance to Russia and the former Soviet republics for securing and destroying their excess nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. To date, the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction program has deactivated more than 5,900 nuclear warheads. He was supposedly a top choice to be Secretary of Defense or State in 1992 and 1996 and in a prospective Gore cabinet in 2000.

Overall, Nunn was a moderate-to-conservative Democrat who often broke with his party on a host of social and economic issues. He strongly opposed the budget bill of 1993, which included provisions to raise taxes in order to reduce the budget deficit. Nunn also opposed President Bill Clinton's proposal to allow gays to serve openly in the military. In 2008, Nunn endorsed a new Pentagon study to examine the issue of gays serving openly in the military: ?I think [when] 15 years go by on any personnel policy, it?s appropriate to take another look at it ? see how it?s working, ask the hard questions, hear from the military. Start with a Pentagon study.?

He voted in favor of school prayer, capping punitive damage awards, amending the U.S. Constitution to require a balanced budget, and limiting death penalty appeals. On certain issues like abortion, the environment, gun control, and affirmative action, Nunn took a more liberal line. He consistently voted in favor of increased immigration. One of his most controversial votes was his vote against the Gulf War.

In September 1994, Sam Nunn, former President Jimmy Carter and former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell were asked by President Bill Clinton to go to Haiti in order to force the departure of the military dictator Lieutenant General Raoul C?dras. In 1994 Clinton publicly demanded that the Haitian government step aside and restore democratic rule. Clinton deployed a large military force to surround the country in September 1994. Just before the troops reached Haiti, Clinton sent a delegation led by Carter, Nunn and Powell to urge C?dras to step down and leave the country. C?dras agreed and surrendered the government, and he and his top lieutenants left the country in October. Just days later, American forces escorted the country?s elected president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, into the capital. Afterwards, Clinton lavished praise on Nunn's delegation for averting a military strike on the nation. "As all of you know, at my request, President Carter, Gen. Colin Powell, and Sen. Sam Nunn went to Haiti to facilitate the dictators' departure. I have been in constant contact with them for the last two days. They have worked tirelessly, almost around the clock, and I want to thank them for undertaking this crucial mission on behalf of all Americans," Clinton said.

Upon his exit from the Senate, Nunn was the recipient of bipartisan praise from his colleagues. Republican Senator John Warner of Virginia concluded, "Senator Nunn quickly established himself as one of the leading experts in the Congress and, indeed, all of the United States on national security and foreign policy. He gained a reputation in our country and, indeed, worldwide as a global thinker, and that is where I think he will make his greatest contribution in the years to come, wherever he may be, in terms of being a global thinker. His approach to national security issues has been guided by one fundamental criteria: What Sam Nunn believes is in the best interest of the United States of America."

[Killer_Man_]

Wait, wasn't John Edwards the guy with Kerry? If so, then I hope it's Nunn.

[Bloodcinder]

Wait, wasn't John Edwards the guy with Kerry?
Yes.

[Killer_Man_]

I'd rather have Nunn then.

[SpaceProg]

From what I remember when he was Senator of GA, he wasn't bad.

[Seegtease]

I'd rather have Nunn then.

Well you have to pick somebody!

[Gio Takahashi]

Well you have to pick somebody!

I'm pretty sure that it's nunnya business

[Bloodcinder]

John Edwards seems like he was a pretty cool guy, at least from what I saw of him during this year's presidential race. What's bad about him?
He has about as much constitution as a loose bowel movement. (Also, he looks like Robin, Boy Wonder.)

[Killer_Man_]

I'm pretty sure that it's nunnya business


You will burn in Hell for that pun.

[Seegtease]

Hey, what about me? I made the first pun!

[Killer_Man_]

No you didn't.

[Seegtease]

lol KM fail

[Z]

Hehe, ya he did, KM, lol

KM: I'd rather have Nunn/None then.
Zeit: Well you have to pick somebody!

:D

[Killer_Man_]

Yeah but his was subtle, Gio's was obvious.

[Z]

Zeit's was pretty obvious to me, also. I mean, they were even italicized, heh, but no worries. I was just pointing out to you where Zeit was talking about.

[SpaceProg]

Puns should be exterminated. They're only good for making people facepalm and groan.

[Gio Takahashi]

Exactly.

[Bloodcinder]

Puns should be exterminated. They're only good for making people facepalm and groan.
I think that should apply only to horrible, blatant, unskilled puns...
I'm pretty sure that it's nunnya business
...not snappy, subtle, skillful puns.
Well you have to pick somebody!

[Seegtease]

KM, subtle puns are usually the best puns. If used with skill, puns can induce a laugh rather than a groan, but they're very delicate terrain.

[Killer_Man_]

But I like obvious ones. <_<; They are more funnah to me.

[Gio Takahashi]

wtf, you guys are debating over puns?

[Seegtease]

For a debate, we sure did bait you in well enough.

[Z]

Ann Margaret Veneman

http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/ites/0903/ijee/veneman.jpg

Ann Margaret Veneman (born June 29, 1949) is currently the Executive Director of UNICEF. She was the first woman and first Californian to become the United States Secretary of Agriculture. She announced her resignation as Secretary on November 15, 2004, which took effect on January 20, 2005. On January 18, 2005, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan announced Secretary Veneman's appointment as the fifth Executive Director of UNICEF. The appointment was made effective with the end of the term of former UNICEF Executive Director Carol Bellamy on May 1, 2005.

On Saturday, July 26, 2008, Politico reported that Barack Obama's vice presidential search team had been floating Veneman's name as a possible running mate. The mention of Veneman's name reportedly surprised Democratic lawmakers because she often clashed with them over regulatory issues. Veneman is one of about a dozen names suggested by vetters in a round of meetings with members of the House and Senate.

Reportedly, Barack Obama's representatives mentioned Veneman to members of Congress as a potential Vice Presidential nominee who would appeal to Republicans and independents.

[SpaceProg]

Hmn... She sounds interesting too. Anyone who clashes with the status quo gets my attention. ;)

[Z]

http://wbztv.com/politics/jonkeller/john.kerry.vice.2.796143.html

I guess John Kerry's hat is in the Obama ring now. Nothing official yet but he's been cited as a new possibility.

[Gio Takahashi]

John Kerry huh? interesting.

[deathofcheese]

I guess John Kerry's hat is in the Obama ring now.Or, in other terms, political suicide.

[SpaceProg]

I believe you could say that, yes...

[Z]

No official announcement yet but The Drudge Report got this bumper sticker image from somewhere. They're unsure whether or not it is a hoax.


Evan Bayh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Bayh)

Birch Evans Bayh III (commonly known as Evan Bayh) (pronounced /ˈbaɪ/, like "bye") (born December 26, 1955) is an American politician who has served as the junior U.S. Senator from Indiana since 1999 and earlier served as Governor of Indiana. He is a member of the Democratic Party.

[Z]

Bayh was a hoax. It's now official...

Obama's Running Mate is Joe Biden (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92NQBTO0&show_article=1)

I have quite a few Republican/Conservative friends who originally said that if they can't get a fellow Republican, they would have voted for Biden so this is a very interesting development. I'm gonna have to refresh my research on Biden but I don't recall significantly disagreeing with most of his politics.

[Arainach]

I would have preferred someone a bit more progressive to fit with his 'change' theme, but Biden is a strong candidate that should silence some of the 'experience' and 'foreign policy' criticisms, plus he's vicious in a debate and probably won't stand for the typical swiftboat-type attacks the Republicans have been running the last 8 years. All in all, I approve.

[Gio Takahashi]

After reading a bit about Joe Biden, I'm very happy with Obama's pick, it would definitely make up for Obama's lack of experience with politics and foreign policy, and like Ary said, he's vicious in congress. Makes me want to look forward to the next four years now.

[Bloodcinder]

This is about like pairing George W. Bush with Zombie Reagan: no matter how awesome your VP might be, you've still got fail leading the country.

[SpaceProg]

This is about like pairing George W. Bush with Zombie Reagan: no matter how awesome your VP might be, you've still got fail leading the country.

Makes for a hell of an image though...

[Arainach]

This is about like pairing George W. Bush with Zombie Reagan: no matter how awesome your VP might be, you've still got fail leading the country.And how, exactly, is Obama "fail"?

[Bloodcinder]

Rabble rabble rabble!*

*Translation: "It's my opinion on the internet."

[Seegtease]

lol@Ary trying to stir up an unnecessary political debate at such a basic "Do you like Obama" level.

[Gio Takahashi]

Sounds like bloodcinder's got Anti-Ary condom on.

[deathofcheese]

As much as Joe Biden sounds like a good running mate for all the things that Obama's lacking (foreign policy, experience, etc.), several things have been pointed out to me that kinda makes me step back and go, "huh?". For as much as Obama's tried to get and keep the tech-savvy crowd with promises about Net Neutrality, reexamining copyright (particularly in the areas of concern that the MafIAA are involved with), and restoring civil rights, Biden's on record with voting in support of RIAA lobbyists for severe anti-piracy measures (both measures to prevent piracy as well as punishments for being caught engaging in piracy) as well as siding with the FBI in voting for legislation that pushed for stronger privileges for wiretapping as well as an encryption standard that the government would hold the keys to.

Source (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10024163-38.html?tag=newsLeadStoriesArea.0).

Voting third-party is starting to look a whole lot better than it did.

[Killer_Man_]

As much as Joe Biden sounds like a good running mate for all the things that Obama's lacking (foreign policy, experience, etc.), several things have been pointed out to me that kinda makes me step back and go, "huh?". For as much as Obama's tried to get and keep the tech-savvy crowd with promises about Net Neutrality, reexamining copyright (particularly in the areas of concern that the MafIAA are involved with), and restoring civil rights, Biden's on record with voting in support of RIAA lobbyists for severe anti-piracy measures (both measures to prevent piracy as well as punishments for being caught engaging in piracy) as well as siding with the FBI in voting for legislation that pushed for stronger privileges for wiretapping as well as an encryption standard that the government would hold the keys to.

Source (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10024163-38.html?tag=newsLeadStoriesArea.0).

Voting third-party is starting to look a whole lot better than it did.


Does that mean I can vote for Steven Colbert now? lol.

[Bloodcinder]

Joe Biden on Barack Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8). (Yeah, it's a McCain ad.)

[Gio Takahashi]

That was McCain's very first attack upon Obama/Biden

[Killer_Man_]

I don't find it to be an attack but the truth. How can you have a VP that isn't even confident about you?

[Gio Takahashi]

while it's true, he did say that, it is quite old, at least almost a year old.

[Bloodcinder]

Do you think Biden believes Obama has enough experience at being president now when he didn't think he did "almost a year" ago?

[Seegtease]

Nah. He's gonna just get to be VP and hope the assassination attempt doesn't fail.

[Z]

^ Sadly, that thought had occurred to me, too.

[Gio Takahashi]

Biden did say that he'll never take VP.

Look at where he is now.

[Bloodcinder]

I think that what a person stands for has no effect on their experience. I stand for good things, but I'm not qualified to be President.

[Arainach]

And how exactly does one get 'experience' for President anyhow? Being a Senator's essentially nothing like it. Being a CEO doesn't work. The closest you could get is probably a former governor, but there have been a lot of lousy governor Presidents and a lot of great non-governor Presidents.

[Killer_Man_]

And how exactly does one get 'experience' for President anyhow? Being a Senator's essentially nothing like it. Being a CEO doesn't work. The closest you could get is probably a former governor, but there have been a lot of lousy governor Presidents and a lot of great non-governor Presidents.

It isn't the experience part, it's more of, how can you have a VP that earlier said they don't like you or backs you up?

*shrugs* That's all I am saying cause no one is ever ready for president as I always viewed it.

[Arainach]

I'm so sick of the American expectation that politicians will say something once and stick by it forever. I'd prefer someone who's willing to admit they were wrong and go with what's best with all the information they currently have available. In fact, I'd flat-out refuse to vote for someone who says 'this is what I'll believe and do no matter what happens'.

[Bloodcinder]

And how exactly does one get 'experience' for President anyhow? Being a Senator's essentially nothing like it. Being a CEO doesn't work. The closest you could get is probably a former governor, but there have been a lot of lousy governor Presidents and a lot of great non-governor Presidents.
My point is exactly that being a senator is nothing like it, especially a one-term junior senator.

Being a governor (or other high-up executor) is the only real way to get the experience pre-Presidency. Legislation doesn't provide any kind of valid training to be an executor.

That George W. Bush is a lousy governor President and that Abraham Lincoln was a great legislator President has no bearing on the fact that legislation is not the way to get executive experience before the Presidency.

I have no real qualifications to have been put into a teaching position. Previously I was only a student. (Well, I had ten real-time hours of teaching, but let's ignore that.) Did I have any experience to prepare me to be a teacher? No. It's a stretch to say that being one part of the academic system could prepare me to be the other part. Am I getting experience now? Yes. Will I be a success in my unqualified role? Probably.

Do I think Obama will be a success in his unqualified role? No, but that's a matter of politics.

UPDATE:

That's all I am saying cause no one is ever ready for president as I always viewed it.
Exactly right.

I'm so sick of the American expectation that politicians will say something once and stick by it forever. I'd prefer someone who's willing to admit they were wrong and go with what's best with all the information they currently have available. In fact, I'd flat-out refuse to vote for someone who says 'this is what I'll believe and do no matter what happens'.
I'm fine with it if and only if the admitting happens. If the admitting doesn't happen or hasn't happened yet, then I give no benefit of doubt.

[Killer_Man_]

I'm so sick of the American expectation that politicians will say something once and stick by it forever. I'd prefer someone who's willing to admit they were wrong and go with what's best with all the information they currently have available. In fact, I'd flat-out refuse to vote for someone who says 'this is what I'll believe and do no matter what happens'.


That's because if you say something you believe in, more than likely it is still in the back of his mind.

Unless Biden apoligizes to Barack, then I will forever see that Biden really doesn't support or doubts Barack's ability to be president

[Gio Takahashi]

you know, with Biden being Barak's running mate, isn't that enough to say that he does support Barak? he went against everything he said

[Killer_Man_]

Yes I know but you know how humans are about selfish needs and what Z said about the assassination.

[Arainach]

That's because if you say something you believe in, more than likely it is still in the back of his mind.

Unless Biden apoligizes to Barack, then I will forever see that Biden really doesn't support or doubts Barack's ability to be presidentI'm 100% certain that he has, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten picked. Why does the apology have to be drawn-out and public? It's enough for me that Obama has faith in Biden.

[Seegtease]

Damn guys, I was joking about the assassination...

[Bloodcinder]

Damn guys, I was joking about the assassination...
Did you notice that nobody commented on it except Z to say that the thought had crossed his mind? It had crossed mine as well. I think everybody took it as a joke. Also, duh.

[Gio Takahashi]

I'm 100% certain that he has, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten picked. Why does the apology have to be drawn-out and public? It's enough for me that Obama has faith in Biden.

Exactly -_-, what'd you think Biden went to Obama and went like "I'm going to be your vice president whether you like it or not."

[Seegtease]

Did you notice that nobody commented on it except Z to say that the thought had crossed his mind? It had crossed mine as well. I think everybody took it as a joke. Also, duh.
KM did, but you may have chose not to read his posts?

[Gio Takahashi]

Wouldn't surprise me.

Yeah that was terrible, I was joking

[Bloodcinder]

I kind of missed that, Zeit, since KM attributed it to Z instead of to you, but I... well... Okay, I was going to try to say something, but I don't really know what KM even was saying, so I'm just going to fail by induction.

[Killer_Man_]

Actually, I wasn't joking.

Since WI, is a democratic state. My friends and I was basically debating on who to vote for cause we were literally thinking about whoever won would die later in office if they become president.

[Gio Takahashi]

why is everyone so bent on thinking that our next president is going to die in office, are we overdue for presidential assassination already? geez

[Killer_Man_]

No but I could see some redneck driving his big ford truck with propane tanks and blowing up the next president.(Being Obama or Hiliary) cause they don't want a black person nor a woman runnigng the country.

[Sorry I hope I am not being racist against the southern states?]

[Gio Takahashi]

I highly doubt that would happen, but I guess I can see Obama being slightly more likely to be an assassination target.

I don't think there's a redneck on the forums.

[Bloodcinder]

Pardon me, but I consider myself a redneck. Rednecks are not the same things as hillbillies or white supremacists.

[Gio Takahashi]

I never did considered Rednecks as hillbillies or white supremacists.

[Bloodcinder]

My second sentence was implicitly addressed to KM.

[Seegtease]

Actually, on a slightly serious note, I think this next presidency has a higher chance for an assassination than others in recent times had. Obama just seems like somebody who a person would have no problem with shooting or exploding or something. And there has been so much controversy this time, I've never heard so much news on the next president in this election as I have in the past. It's just a much bigger issue than it has been in the past.

[Killer_Man_]

Well, sorry if I sounded horrible with my post BC but from my highschool. The local 'country/redneck/farmer kids' whatever they want to call themselves. HATED any race especially black people.

It was rather odd.

[Bloodcinder]

HORRIBLE KM SOUNDS HORRIBLE

[Gio Takahashi]

Rednecks of the north. Amusing.

I actually thought Bush would be assassinated, and during the Bush vs Kerry election, I thought it was all over the news. Pretty much ever since the 9/11 attack, media has been in total uproars about everything.

2012 will be an interesting year :roll: watch as people will panic as we get closer to December 12th.

[Bloodcinder]

2012 will be an interesting year :roll: watch as people will panic as we get closer to December 12th.
Sorry, I'll be too busy utilizing a time machine built entirely in Python to escape to the past.

[Gio Takahashi]

Python on the time

[deathofcheese]

Let's examine what might happen if white/male supremacists decided to blow up Obama/Clinton:

Truck drives up.
Secret Service owns.

Huh. Whoops.

Also, don't forget, (at least) SP and myself are from two of the "deep south" states. We might not be rednecks (I don't consider myself one, even though my dad, originally from upstate New York, does), so be careful how you say what you say. You may not intend offense, but being lumped into a group of people I really don't like at all just because of where I live isn't really cool at all.

[Z]

Apparently McCain officially announces his running mate tomorrow. It better be someone outstanding. If it's just another cookie-cutter Republican, McCain is uber screwed.

[deathofcheese]

In walking by while CNN was on (I was kind of in shock), whoever was on mentioned one governor that recently canceled a bunch of public appearances, ostensibly so that he could make it to the convention to possibly accept being a running mate.

[Z]

You are referring to Tim Pawlenty

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121824207407226163.html?mod=todays_us_opinion

[Gio Takahashi]

McCain picked his running mate, and it is none other than Sarah Palin (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25970882/).

My mom told me this on AIM and first reaction is, who's Sarah Palin o_O

I'll have to say, that was a move that I didn't expect.

[Killer_Man_]

That's cause she's the governor of Alaska and nothing ever happens in Alaska.

And I love how the article is already dropping dirt on her that means nothing.

[Z]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080829/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_veepstakes

^ Another article

John McCain picked Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, a maverick conservative with less than two years in office, as his vice presidential running mate Friday in a startling choice as the Republican National Convention drew near.

So far, I think McCain just shot himself in the foot. Again.

[Gio Takahashi]

that's what I think too, my mom was telling me about this on IM, saying that Palin have little to no experience, only to run a state that almost nobody cares about. the last part is kinda sarcastic

[Arainach]

A reasonably smart choice, which is unfortunate. I don't like her, but she could pull in some of the pissed off Hillary voters. On the plus side, given that McCain's even more likely than Obama to die in office, running such an inexperienced VP who's a heartbeat from the presidency really shoots in the foot the only real campaign slogan McCain had going for him (ZOMG EXPERIENCE IS EVERYTHING)

[Z]

I don't think women will go Republican just because there is a woman VP possibility. There's still the 'P' factor to consider.

Not only that but half of McCain's campaign was based on Obama's inexperience and now he has to drop that portion of his attacks becuase they could easily be used and turned on his VP.

Apparently conservatives really like the pick but conservatives were likely going to vote McCain anyway so I don't see how this helps McCain at all. I certainly don't think Palin will be able to hold her own against Biden in the Vice Presidential debates.

To me, it just spells: Bad Pick

[Gio Takahashi]

Experience is one of the keyfactor, but it's hard to define 'what is good experience' for a President. Is it Senator? Is it being a past Vice President? or being a Governor?

Both of the last two Presidents (Bush and Clinton) were Governors before, though I don't remember George Bush of the 80s.

[Gio Takahashi]

It's definitely by far the most excited Election to come, it's the first one without any Bush or Clinton at the general election. (Yes, I know Hilary Clinton was involved, but not anymore!)

[Z]

She has an ethical issue as well. Alaska lawmakers are investigating whether Palin abused her power in firing a public safety commissioner. Lawmakers say they want to know whether Palin was mad at the commissioner for not firing an Alaska state trooper who went through a messy divorce and ongoing child custody battles with Palin's sister.
Palin is 44, Obama 47. She served in her statehouse 20 months. Obama served in his statehouse for eight years. Obama and Palin are running less on their resumes than on they are on their promise. The promise of change and new politics.Unsympathetic, young (relatively), inexperienced, and under investigation.



Boo. They're already making comparisons to her and Dan Quayle.

I don't remember George Bush of the 80s.

Bush Sr. worked in the house of reps, in the senate, was appointed the UN ambassador by Nixon, then became the chairman of the RNC and then Vice President to Ronald Reagan before finally going for President.

[Gio Takahashi]

Geez, sounds like Old man McCain's really shot himself for that one.

[Bloodcinder]

You know, I thought he shot himself too until I started reading this thread and realized... oh, wait, Palin actually does have more experience than Obama by my standards (executive).

Then again, we all know that McCain is not going to win this election, and, even though I'm positive he's going to get some pissed off Hillary fans into his camp, it's not going to do anything to specifically help him beat Obama.

[Z]

Then again, we all know that McCain is not going to win this election.
To be fair, many of us "knew" Bush wouldn't get a second term.

Nothing's set in stone.

[Bloodcinder]

Well, perhaps that is the case, but since I wasn't one of the people that "knew" Bush would not get a second term, I may have a more narrow viewpoint than the typical. I just think that the pervading view is that McCain '08 is simply Bush III '08. As inaccurate as that may be, if you combine that with Obama's "charisma" and "hope" I think you have an unwinnable campaign for McCain.

[Z]

It's definitely looking grim, no disagreement there, but I think something a lot of people are not keeping in mind is that a good portion of liberals just don't vote whereas almost all the older republicans absolutely do (see 2000 + 2004 elections). And anyone who dislikes Obama based on his race would certainly vote as well and the Republican party seems to house most of this country's racists. Not a great method of winning, of course, but it's reality. There is still quite a bit of bigotry and people who are afraid of change and that's a massive obstacle Obama will have to cross and I think Biden was his best attempt.

McCains decision to cater to woman voters by getting a female runningmate, however, hurts his edge and the fact that she's not even as experience (in my eyes) as Obama and certainly not as experienced as Biden hurts his base that would have voted for him because he's just an old white guy.

Obama will certainly get the airtime over McCain, I just don't actually know whether or not he'll get the presidency over McCain. Like I said, both candidates are kind of a dissappointment to me right now.

[deathofcheese]

I don't really think McCain's shot himself in the foot with this, but I do think he could've picked someone much better. Although it seems that she's got a fairly nice "corruption cleaner" image going for her (even when she "abused" her office, it sounded to me like she was trying to trim some fat), I hate to think that the idea of bringing in a mother of five children (some of them young children) as Vice President isn't going to help McCain that much. Although it might not make her very popular with other Republicans, I think she should change her stance on Sen. Stevens (tubes guy) to something more condemning, especially if she (or her party/campaign) want to emphasize her reputation as a corruption cleaner.

Too bad McCain didn't pick Da Governatah. I might almost be convinced to vote for him if I could have Ahnold as a VP/potential successor. At least I like his political stances more than I like McCain's. However, after my dad's, "that man is evil incarnate" statement about Obama last night, I think I could live with myself in voting for Obama (instead of third-party/independent) out of spite.

[Z]

(even when she "abused" her office, it sounded to me like she was trying to trim some fat)
The way I read it, she fired a guy for not firing a guy that divorced her sister. I didn't see any logical reasons for him or the other guy to be fired (though not much info was given, either, so I could be wrong)

[Z]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080829171140.5123i228&show_article=1Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's campaign on Friday blasted his Republican rival's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as a running-mate, highlighting her "zero" foreign policy experience. "Today, John McCain (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=John%20McCain&sid=breitbart.com) put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement.And so it begins, lol. I don't know what McCain was thinking or why he thought the presence of a woman would blindly bring forth the female vote. I think women are smart enough to choose a candidate based on more than the candidate's gender.

[Bloodcinder]

Too bad McCain didn't pick Da Governatah. I might almost be convinced to vote for him if I could have Ahnold as a VP/potential successor.
Impossible.
...no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

[Gio Takahashi]

There has to be more to it than "just so McCain could get women voters", if that is really the case, then old man McCain is truly an idiot. Like I said, this is turning out to be an interesting election. I am quite apprehensive on what the next four years will be like, especially with the current state of the middle east and Russia and Georgia.

DeathOfCheese: I really don't think Arnold Schwarzenegger would even be qualified to be Vice President simply because he's not a US born citizen. Bah. Bloodcinder ninja'd me.

As for 2004 election, I really, really thought John Kerry would win it, hell anyone would be better than Bush, but nope.

Hell I even participated for http://sorryeverybody.com/ in response to that.

[deathofcheese]

Bah, some pesky Constitution isn't enough to stop Da Govanatahfrom doin' what he want.

But yeah, I didn't know that Presidency rules applied to Vice Presidency too. You do learn something every once in a while.

[Z]

As for 2004 election, I really, really thought John Kerry would win it, hell anyone would be better than Bush, but nope.
Exactly, and that Year Bush not only won the electoral but he won the popular vote, too, so there is still a possibility that McCain has a chance. He just doesn't get nearly as much coverage and I think the media is starting to take notice of their own bias in that regard (though still not correcting it).

If I had to choose today, now knowing the VP candidates, between Obama and McCain... I would have to go with the Obama/Biden ticket. I'd like to think, at this point, that I'm a moderate conservative but McCain doesn't know what he's doing, he's already made a critically poor decision (in the selection of his VP) and even if I don't trust Obama much, I do have some respect for Biden (whereas I have very little for McCain as a whole).

[Gio Takahashi]

hate that the last few elections were all about choosing the lesser of the two evils.

It's going to be exactly as it was the last two elections, it's going to be a very close election, I will not be surprised that yet another state will demand for recount, but end up getting denied.

Remember what happened in year 2000 election, everyone thought that Al Gore was going to win it. At this point, I really hope history doesn't repeat itself anyway. (no I'm not talking about recount)

[SpaceProg]

...However, after my dad's, "that man is evil incarnate" statement about Obama last night, I think I could live with myself in voting for Obama (instead of third-party/independent) out of spite.


Why does your dad think that? Do you know?

[Killer_Man_]

My dad told me that the only reason they picked her cause supposely both McCain and Palin want to drill in Alaska for Oil. I told him don't hold your breath. I still don't know who I am going to vote for... But I will admit Ary is right. Why? Because of the sheer fact that McCain's votes went up cause the ZOMG FEMINISTS were pissed that Obama didn't pick Hiliary as VP.

[deathofcheese]

I would think that having the Alaskan governor as VP would have absolutely no impact on the possibility of opening Alaska for expanded drilling for oil. That's something that has to get approved by Congress and is already in the works from before Palin was ever considered for potential running mate.

Every time I see her name, I always want to think that she's related to Michael Palin of Monty Python.

[SpaceProg]

At least I'm not the only one that immediately thought of the OTHER Palin...

[Killer_Man_]

What other Palin?

Death, that is true but with more people going for it.(I know Paul Ryan has been pushing to drill with of course researching other ways of energy besides oil.)

Hmmm, the only reason I can think of that McCain won't win is because of the two years of republican. From the years I've lived, it seems that every time we have two term of one side, the other wins by default.

[Z]

What other Palin?Every time I see her name, I always want to think that she's related to Michael Palin of Monty Python.

[deathofcheese]

Hmmm, the only reason I can think of that McCain won't win is because of the two successive terms of republican. From the years I've lived, it seems that every time we have two term of one side, the other wins by default.Fixed. Unless they get shot or are removed from office through impeachment, Presidents serve for four years. Bush Jr. has had two terms of four years each (eight years total).

It's not by default, but it generally follows the trend of people are tired of x party and think y party will solve all of the perceived problems that x party has created during its time filling the executive throne.

My favorite reason that McCain won't win is that he's getting to be a senile old man who has gotten left behind in modern politics. He's gotten a chance to run for President again because quite a lot of people that make up our government are all behind on the times too, so they appreciate what he's saying.

[Killer_Man_]

Eh, a small typo I do apoligize. I meant terms not years...

Second, I do believe in the X party/Y party you mention... But why can't people get sick of X and Y and vote for Z?

[Z]

vote for Z?
Here, here! :D

[Killer_Man_]

Sadly you are not of age.

Though I did that on purpose cause of Z.

[Z]

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=34921

‘Ludicrous’ to Say Palin Has Less Experience Than Obama, McCain Says

“She’s been in elected office longer than Sen. Obama. She’s been the chief executive of the state that provides 20 percent of America’s energy; she has balanced budgets; she has had executive experience as governor, as mayor, as a city council member and PTA.

“So she was in elected office when Sen. Obama was still a local community organizer. He’s never had one day of executive experience.”So McCain tried to defend his "No Experience" attacks yesterday after signing Palin on as the VP candidate.

Here's the actual experience via Wikipedia:

Sarah Palin
• 2 Terms on Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996
• 2 Terms as mayor of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002.
• Campaigned for Lt. Governor unsuccessfully in 2002
• Chaired on the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004 while also serving as Ethics Supervisor of the commission.
• Elected governor of Alaska in 2006

Barrack Obama
• Worked as a community organizer and practiced as a civil rights attorney before 1997.
• Served as an Illinois State Senator from 1997 to 2004.
• Campaigned for U.S. House of Reps in 2000 unsuccessfully.
• Elected as U.S. Senator in November 2004

Wow, McCain might actually be right.

[Arainach]

2 Terms on Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996Pushing an increased sales tax and a 'progressive' message; real appropriate for a campaign with McCain.2 Terms as mayor of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002.In which she was criticized for repeatedly firing anyone who didn't go along with everything she said. Not the kind of person I want in an executive position.• Campaigned for Lt. Governor unsuccessfully in 2002Because campaigning is definitely experience.• Chaired on the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004 while also serving as Ethics Supervisor of the commission.That's essentially legislative experience; it's hardly executive experience, and if we're going to call it such than a lot of Obama's activities in Congress qualify too.• Elected governor of Alaska in 2006Where she once again is in hot water for trying to fire people at will, even to the point of firing superiors who refuse to fire people she wants gone. Also, where she supported Ted Stevens' "Bridge to Nowhere" while claiming she was cleaning up corruption and earmarks.

Real great experience. I'd rather have someone with no experience than someone with her credentials.

[deathofcheese]

Regardless, she does have more executive experience than Obama does, which is probably the only good thing she has going for her. Unless her policy stances or history somehow support McCain's cause.

Trying to compare Obama with anyone in terms of experience will probably show him to be defecit. He's only ever been in legislative positions (I didn't know he served as a senator in Illinois but his Federal experience is still limited because he's only served a couple terms as a junior senator) which doesn't exactly convert to executive experience.

Still, how exactly does experience mean that you're a good choice for President? Granted, you probably don't want someone new to the political game in charge of the country, but I wouldn't want someone who's sleazed his way into a "tenured" legislative position either. Also, all the experience in the world won't mean shit if you have crappy political views or crazy ideas about how to lead the country.

[Z]

2 Terms on Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996
Pushing an increased sales tax and a 'progressive' message; real appropriate for a campaign with McCain.

According to Google, while she was in the city council, Palin followed through on her campaign promises to reduce her own salary, and to reduce property taxes by 60%. I'm having a hard time getting a straight-forward list of her city council accomplishments but apparently this was a big one.

2 Terms as mayor of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002.
In which she was criticized for repeatedly firing anyone who didn't go along with everything she said. Not the kind of person I want in an executive position.

After a little research, it turns out the people she attempted to fire (Apparently only 1 actually got fired) were originally asked to resign upon her taking office becuase they publicly supported her opponent during her campaign. She then changed her mind and let them keep their jobs before, later on, attempting to fire them again but, ya, I have no idea what the cause is on that.Both Stambaugh and Emmons publicly supported Palin's opponent, long-time mayor John Stein during the campaign last fall. When she was elected, Palin questioned their loyalty and initially asked for their resignations. But Stambaugh said he thought any questions had been resolved.
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/510219.html • Campaigned for Lt. Governor unsuccessfully in 2002
Because campaigning is definitely experience.

It is, actually (though not Executive experience, I will admit), which is why I included it for Obama as well but if you don't want to count them, that still keeps the overall total difference the same as it was before.

• Chaired on the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004 while also serving as Ethics Supervisor of the commission.
That's essentially legislative experience; it's hardly executive experience, and if we're going to call it such than a lot of Obama's activities in Congress qualify too.

A chairman is the highest ranking executive of a board of directors. I don't know why that wouldn't be executive experience.

• Elected governor of Alaska in 2006
Where she once again is in hot water for trying to fire people at will, even to the point of firing superiors who refuse to fire people she wants gone. Also, where she supported Ted Stevens' "Bridge to Nowhere" while claiming she was cleaning up corruption and earmarks.

She's in hot water for firing 1 person as governor and, yes, I agree that one is definitely shady. As far as Bridge To Nowhere, it's one of those "I voted against the war after I voted for it" type of deals, it seems.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's assertion that she rejected Congressional funds for the so-called "bridge to nowhere" has upset many Alaskans.

During her first speech after being named as McCain's surprise pick as a running mate, Palin said she had told Congress "'thanks but no thanks' on that bridge to nowhere."

In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere," political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the earmark for it secured by Alaska's Congressional delegation during her run for governor.I don't doubt that she's got some real skeletons but, at the same time, I can accept the reality that Obama has much less credentials than people give him credit for.

[deathofcheese]

Eh, chairman of the board does seem more like legislative experience than executive experience to me. At any rate, it's probably closer to a combination of both. A CEO would be stronger executive experience, but since that was a committee (or commission) and not an organization, then no CEO.

[Z]

Ah, I may just be a bit naive of the responsibilities of a chairmen, then. I've always just assumed they handled the people that handled the legislation.

[Bloodcinder]

I do indeed concur whole-heartedly with Z's third-to-last post before this entry.

[Bloodcinder]

I got angry about people lambasting Sarah Palin for the wrong reasons and blogged about it. It's a little niche-specific, but you can mentally generalize it.

The Loathing Left (http://sum.bloodcinder.com/2008/09/why-i-almost-wish-i-could-vote-for-john.html)

Warning. Following is my unmitigated honesty in response to some gay Democrats.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xe-ONJeMrCo/SL8N8F__4dI/AAAAAAAABRo/E45SJR9_jsY/s320/palin.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xe-ONJeMrCo/SL8N8F__4dI/AAAAAAAABRo/E45SJR9_jsY/s1600-h/palin.JPG)

If you want to discredit Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential candidate, try referencing any number of the real political issues there are to be concerned about with regards to her potential executive role. Quit insulting her because she's a woman, a mother, and the matriarch of a family that happens to have a teen pregnancy.

Democrats claim to stand for, among other things, fairness to the sexes and reproductive rights. From all of the vitriolic froth I've seen recently, Democrats find it quite easy to belittle women if they are political opponents and to make teenage girls feel miserable about having babies a bit early. This is especially true of the gay Democrats. I wonder if they are so angry that they are even more capable of completely blinding themselves to sensible thought and the way the world truly is than are the Republicans they so despise.

Look, I too can quote somebody else who said something strong as if to give myself plausible deniability against potentially invective comments....isn't it just so misogynistic to have, within two days of a historic nomination of a woman on the White House ticket, a giant can of theoretical worms open on the topics of body rights, abortions, and teenage mothers?

The problem with Palin Preggersgate is that it's very easy to play Devil's Advocate and be all "Leave the Palins alone!" instead of "Sarah Palin would make a horrible VP for reasons that have nothing to do with her personal life."

Yes, you can realistically call out Palin for supporting abstinence-only education while she was clearly unable to enforce that plan under her own roof. But unlike a daughter marrying someone else's daughter, a child having another child is not officially outlawed in almost all the states. The point being: Neither Sarah nor her daughter Bristol are going against the ideas that Palin and McCain and the entire Republican party stand for. Not family values or abstinence-only sexual education, but the big one: the decision not to terminate your pregnancy no matter how difficult or unsavory the scenario may be.

It would be one thing if Palin was running on a pro-life ticket and her daughter had an abortion. Then you would be able to make a case for a difference in public legislation vs. personal life. But neither Palin nor Bristol are secretly visiting clinics in their spare time, and as far as anyone knows... the governor is not trying to cover up her daughter's pregnancy, or even the identity of the father, insomuch as it took the paps about five minutes to figure that one out.

Sarah Palin is, for all intents and purposes, being a good mother; she is supporting her daughter through a difficult period. Especially compared to how ole' Dick C tried to shovel little Mary's lesbo tendencies under the rug during the 2004 elections.(Jossip (http://www.jossip.com/sarah-palins-pregnant-daughter-and-why-you-shouldnt-care-20080902/).)

So, really, can my entire blog feed one morning suddenly become filled with legitimate criticism of Sarah Palin's qualifications instead of sexist and hateful assaults on her personal life and those of her family members in the fits of ironic hypocrisy that I at this point so readily expect from the loathing left?

[Z]

To Obama's credit, he made this public statement as reported by ThePolitico.com


Obama on Palin

Politico's Carrie Budoff Brown reports: At a press avail in Monroe, Mich., Barack Obama on Palin: "Back off these kinds of stories."

"I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits," Obama said. "And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics."

On charges that his campaign has stoked the story via liberal blogs:
"I am offended by that statement. There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us," he said. "Our people were not involved in any way in this, and they will not be. And if I thought there was somebody in my campaign who was involved in something like that, they would be fired."

[Bloodcinder]

Can you provide me the source for that? I'd like to add it to my blog post.

[Z]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obama_on_Palin.html?showall

http://strategy08.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/obama-back-off/

The second link has audio.

[Bloodcinder]

Thankee.

[deathofcheese]

The only issue I have with her having a young family like that is whether it will interfere with her position. Obviously, VP is a pretty busy office. Which probably means that she's not going to have a whole lot of time for her family at all. If she can find a way to balance them and her job, then great, more power to her. It shouldn't be an issue, otherwise.

[Seegtease]

She's kinda cute.

[deathofcheese]

She reminds me of Laura Roslin from Battlestar Galactica.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/photos/uncategorized/roslin.jpg

[Bloodcinder]

Oh dear, she does look like Donnie Darko's mom!

[Gio Takahashi]

oh man the resemblance is uncanny.

[Z]

Wow, apparently she's really turning heads.

According to her televised ratings...

37,244,000 WATCHED PALIN SPEECH
24,029,000 WATCHED BIDEN
38,379,000 WATCHED OBAMA

http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/09/palin-ratings-s.html