Local city bus drivers go on strike

[Killer_Man_]

RACINE – The city bus strike that started 4 a.m. this morning could last more than two weeks, according to the union.

Last week the Belle Urban System employee’s union warned that they were serious about striking and today they put their plan into action, closing down all bus lines in the process.

4 a.m. – The bus strike officially starts.

5:10 a.m. – Bus employees picket outside the transit center.


5:30 a.m. – Riders begin to wonder where their buses are.

The drivers will not be operating until their union Teamsters Local 43 reaches a contract agreement with the bus management company, Professional Transit Management of Racine, said union president Wes Gable.

"It's unfair it has to come to it," Gable said. "But sometimes we have to stand up and protect our families' rights."


The bus strike will probably last at least two weeks, said Curtis Garner, executive director of Professional Transit Management.

“We’re going to wait and see if they are going to come back to work,” Garner said.

Strike affects many

Normally at 5:10 a.m., bus driver Mary Pierce would be just starting to pick up riders on bus route one. She would be on the road heading towards Careers Industries Inc., 3502 Douglas Ave., the area where she normally picks up her first passengers. Instead she was outside the State Street transit center holding up a sign saying it all: “On Strike. Local Teamsters 43.”

“I don’t get to work today,” Pierce said.

She and the other bus employees will likely not be the only people scheduled for work but not working today.

Benito Bernal, 43, is a dishwasher at SC Johnson in Sturtevant and was scheduled to start work at 6:30 a.m. But just before 6 a.m. he was at the transit center, and there were no buses in sight. “It ain’t right,” Bernal said. “I didn’t know about it. They didn’t tell me.”

He doesn’t have a car and his family members with vehicles already left for their own jobs, he said. All that he can do is call his work and try to explain to them what happened, he said.

The frustration was the same at bus stops along the road, where people stood waiting for buses that never showed up.

“What?!” said John Norvillas, when he found out the bus wasn’t coming. “Oh no.”

Norvillas, a painter, lives on Douglas Avenue and was supposed to be at a job site at 7 a.m. to clean. Standing near the corner of Douglas Avenue and Rapids Drive, he estimated he was about three miles away from his job site on West Boulevard. He is going to have to walk there, he said.

The idea of walking annoyed him, but he was even more annoyed that no one told him about the strike ahead of time.

“I think they should notify the people that ride the buses,” Norvillas said. “Or the bus company should get scab drivers.”

Gable explained they could not warn people about the exact date of the strike because the bus company could have lined up replacement drivers and the strike would not have been as effective.

Bus employees have been working without a contract since July 1http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2008/08/18/local_news/doc48a93b3f0e915646214644.txt



I love how they didn't want to say when they were going to strike because of the sheer fact that it wouldn't be effective? I already called up the higher ups on this and told them to settle this cause there are many people who use the bus who has NO TRANSPORTATION. Such as seniors who are trying to keep their independence or even people who can't drive(Such as vision or other said problems) and go to work and all that.

I love how anther article says it was unclear how this was going to effect people, I'll tell you how, I can't get to work now thanks to these dip shits.

And yet it might last two weeks.....

I was trying to find the previous articles but here is the run down.

Basically, the contract was up back in July 1st.

The city people the city hired to run the bus system, wnated to change some rules on sick days, insurance, sick days are combined with vacation days and a few other small rules. I think they even wanted to remove some rules out of the contract.

Actually I found the other links as I was typing this up.

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2008/08/18/local_news/doc48a9a1699990d493046942.txt

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2008/06/30/local_news/doc4869ad15d43c3082918591.txt

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2008/07/10/local_news/doc48765a1602210612490981.txt

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2008/06/30/local_news/doc486843e9cc601702032714.txt

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2008/06/26/local_news/doc486459ae0f977647219890.txt

I'm so fucking pissed right now.

[RonDo]

Time to bring in the scabs.

[Killer_Man_]

You know they are...

Rondo, the last strike I heard of in Racine is that if a case plant. What they did is waited a week or so, then told them to go home. Because they are jobless now. THey hired a new crew under a new contract because without a contract. You techincally have no job there.

[deathofcheese]

Union fail. Seriously, get rid of unions. The time they were needed has passed. People don't get raped by their employers any more. People may not get the best treatment everywhere, but being in a union isn't going to help that very much if it can put you out of a job while they "sue for better conditions".

[Killer_Man_]

Death: They wanted to take out some rules of what is considered being late for your shift and all.

But they are already debating on rather to fire the 3rd party runners + make it all city run so they can't strike.

[Gio Takahashi]

Couple of years ago, I recall that new york city bus drivers went on strike, totally stalling the bus system, preventing over millions from being able to get to their destination, I think they made it against the law to go on strike afterwards, for the bus drivers in new york.

[deathofcheese]

"Late for your shift" means "hasn't clocked in by the time your shift starts". There, I solved the strike. What was so hard about that?

NOTE: the above secondary statement ("I solved the strike...") was not entirely serious.

[deathofcheese]

Couple of years ago, I recall that new york city bus drivers went on strike, totally stalling the bus system, preventing over millions from being able to get to their destination, I think they made it against the law to go on strike afterwards, for the bus drivers in new york.Yeah, that happened when I was with my cousins in Albany, NY and we were planning on going to the city for a day. Bastards shut down transit and we couldn't make it (no trains to get there, no buses to ride into the city, no subways to get around). That was brutal, though. People had to walk miles to work in the New York winter because not everybody could afford to drive to work and/or park all day once they got there.

[Bloodcinder]

Where guilds could help to keep people from getting screwed by their employers, government-subsidized guilds, or unions, help the people to screw their employers. What a failed system.

[Gio Takahashi]

It wouldn't surprise me if they start to outlaw mass transit operators from going on strike, because it generally cripples the city otherwise.

[Seegtease]

Proof of Union Fail™. Honestly, it also makes me think of the people participating in the strike as total pricks. Why?

"It's unfair it has to come to it," Gable said. "But sometimes we have to stand up and protect our families' rights."Right. And disregard all the families (which greatly outnumber employee families) that will be unable to get to their own jobs and maintain their living. How selfless of you. Union should pay for every single loss of wage that was incurred by this for people who rely on the bus.

Not to mention the timing could hardly be worse with more people seeking public transportation due to gas prices.

[Killer_Man_]

Proof of Union Fail™. Honestly, it also makes me think of the people participating in the strike as total pricks. Why?

Right. And disregard all the families (which greatly outnumber employee families) that will be unable to get to their own jobs and maintain their living. How selfless of you. Union should pay for every single loss of wage that was incurred by this for people who rely on the bus.

Not to mention the timing could hardly be worse with more people seeking public transportation due to gas prices.

That and NO ONE KNEW ABOUT IT. So there was a ton of people even I, was standing out there to go to a friends house cause I have off today. And we were all baffled till I called up the transit center and said they were on strike.

The thing is though, since the city paid for a third party to run it. They can legally strike. If it was ran by the city(Which I heard rumors/reports that it might turn it over back to the city), it would be illegal for them to strike.

Besides they are wasting tax dollars by having someone come in and run it instead of the city. Even I have written the Mayor about that one.

[Arainach]

Proof of Union Fail?. Honestly, it also makes me think of the people participating in the strike as total pricks. Why?

Right. And disregard all the families (which greatly outnumber employee families) that will be unable to get to their own jobs and maintain their living. How selfless of you. Union should pay for every single loss of wage that was incurred by this for people who rely on the bus.

Not to mention the timing could hardly be worse with more people seeking public transportation due to gas prices.So because they fulfill an important role they should just take whatever's given to them and not be able to strike? Sorry, but this is the absolute essence of the capitalist system everyone seems to love - these people have skills that are very much in demand, and people can either choose to pay the price they demand or look elsewhere. After all, it's a free market AMIRITE????? If they don't like it, they can start their own bus line, AMIRITE?????

[Killer_Man_]

So because they fulfill an important role they should just take whatever's given to them and not be able to strike? Sorry, but this is the absolute essence of the capitalist system everyone seems to love - these people have skills that are very much in demand, and people can either choose to pay the price they demand or look elsewhere. After all, it's a free market AMIRITE????? If they don't like it, they can start their own bus line, AMIRITE?????


No one said they had to but they should be glad they even have jobs. Second, I understand what they are fighting for, that is rules that should be in the contract so that the people who run it doesn't just change the rules as they please.

I am mad at both the 3rd party that runs it(Note not city ran) and the drivers.

This has NOTHING to do with wages, benefits and etc.

But like I've told people. I won't be damn surprised if they hire scabs/get new drivers and tell them to either work for what we are offering or find new jobs.

It happened in the Case plant here in Racine.

They weren't happy about the bussiness not paying more for their insurance cause they kept raising it on them. They went on strike when the contract was up, within a week Case literally said. You either work now or go home cause you won't have a job. We're hiring new people.

[Bloodcinder]

Ary, there's a difference between being allowed to strike and being subsidized by the government to strike.

[Killer_Man_]

Ary, there's a difference between being allowed to strike and being subsidized by the government to strike.

What's the difference?


BREAKING NEWS: BUS STRIKE IS OVER


By Stephanie Brien

Monday, August 18, 2008 6:38 PM CDT


RACINE - The city and the bus union have reached a tentative agreement and bus service is to resume Tuesday morning.

More to come ...


Bus strike is over apparently.

[Killer_Man_]

Racine buses to resume service today

By Stephanie Brien
Journal Times

Monday, August 18, 2008 11:19 PM CDT


RACINE ? Belle Urban System buses will be back on their regular routes today, just 24 hours after the system shut down Monday for a strike.


Drivers and other BUS workers walked away from their jobs just after 4 a.m. Monday and picketed throughout the day about failed contract negotiations between their union, Teamsters Local 43, and the bus management company, Professional Transit Management.


BUS workers were able to strike because they are contracted with Professional Transit Management and not directly with the city. Unions contracted directly with the city are not allowed to strike.


But the strike ended before the day was done. Mayor Gary Becker met with union officials and the management company for 4? hours Monday afternoon, and the two sides were able to reach a tentative agreement.



Now it?s up to the union members to approve the new contract, said Teamsters Local 43 President Wes Gable. The members will vote on the contract at 8 p.m. Sunday at a private meeting, Gable said. They had been working without a contract since July 1.


The tentative new agreement includes compromises from both sides.


If the new, two-year contract is approved, BUS workers will receive a 1.75 percent annual pay increase for this year and next, and their retirement health costs will be covered under private insurance rather than the BUS workers? group plan, said Curtis Garner, executive director of Professional Transit



Management.

That move alone will save the city an estimated $250,000 in the first year of the contract, Becker and Garner said Monday.


The pay increase will be difficult to manage, Garner said, and means BUS may need to cut some services. Racine County is currently in the middle of a county-wide transportation development plan that will help determine where those cuts will be made, Garner said.


The pay increase will cost the city, but the change in retirement health coverage will help save some money, Garner said.


The change in insurance carriers will not affect retired workers significantly, Garner said, because the management company will reimburse most out-of-pocket expenses so that the new cost for retirees is equal to the old cost. Gable said Monday night that he would not comment on the specific terms of the new negotiation until the union votes on it.


The management company typically works with the transit planner in City Hall. But the transit planner, Kathy Casper, stepped down from the position in mid-July, Garner said, and the city is looking for a replacement.


Garner?s plan to convert payroll clerks and dispatchers into nonunion positions also was a contentious issue. In the tentative agreement reached Monday, payroll jobs will be transferred to management, but dispatchers will remain union employees, Garner and Becker said.


Having existing management take over payroll will save approximately $60,000, according to a written summary of Garner?s final offer.


Garner also wanted dispatcher jobs to be made into management positions, but the newly proposed contract does not include that, he said. That is the part of the new negotiation about which Garner said he is most disappointed.


Dispatchers should be able to discipline drivers when they receive complaints, Garner said.


"(Instead) there is no accountability because essentially they are ratting out a fellow union member," he said, adding that changing the position to management would not have meant a loss of seniority or benefits. Also, he said, no one would have lost his or her job because someone would have likely moved up internally.


On Monday morning, Garner had said he would not compromise. PTM made its final contract offer Tuesday and he said they were going to stick with it.


"We?re going to wait and see if they are going to come back to work," Garner said at about 9 a.m. "Our offer is final. We?ll see how long they can afford to stay out of work."


But by the end of the day, an agreement had been tentatively reached.


Gable said if the union does not approve the new contract, the management company, union and mayor will meet again before any further action is taken.


Pete Wicklund contributed to this report.



http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2008/08/18/local_news/doc48a93b3f0e915646214644.txt


I didn't think it would last long especially with many many people either chewing out the 3rd party runners or the mayor.

Though I'd still think that they should be ran by the city.

[Bloodcinder]

KM, the difference is that unions are allowed to get away with their strikes under threat of litigation. Guilds only have the power of the strike itself, not the power of the government to back them.

[Seegtease]

Furthermore, people who rely on the bus system can't "take their business elsewhere" like they could if some business went on strike. There's usually just one bus system, and you use it or use nothing. It is one of those things that should be not allowed to strike (at least, not under unions).

[Killer_Man_]

Sadly, most people are already harping on Becker(Whose supposely the worst mayor in the history of Racine.). To make it part of the city, not a subsidized bussiness.

[Arainach]

Furthermore, people who rely on the bus system can't "take their business elsewhere" like they could if some business went on strike. There's usually just one bus system, and you use it or use nothing. It is one of those things that should be not allowed to strike (at least, not under unions).Businesses don't go on strike. Workers do. And that's the point of a strike - making people realize what happens without you as a way of getting your point across. If it inconvienienced no one, there'd be no point.

[Killer_Man_]

Strikes are suppose to inconvenienced the higher ups, not the people.

[Arainach]

They're supposed to get the ATTENTION of the higher-ups. Who they inconvienience depends on who has the ability to best get that attention.

[Killer_Man_]

So basically they striked, everyone calls up saying what the fuck is going on, throws a fit and forces the 3rd party to roll over because of the sheer fact that people need the bus? That seems more bullshit and the fact that they used it to get an advantage. The job they have is very comfy with great pay and benefits.

That is why I still feel even now that the bus should be taken over the city because this isn't the only time that they have striked apparently from what my parents have said.

Not to mention the fact that people were planning on using the buses to get to a hostipal for kidney diagnosis.

[Arainach]

So basically they striked, everyone calls up saying what the fuck is going on, throws a fit and forces the 3rd party to roll over because of the sheer fact that people need the bus? That seems more bullshit and the fact that they used it to get an advantage.God how I envy your naivety sometimes.The job they have is very comfy with great pay and benefits.Source?

[Killer_Man_]

http://www.indeed.com/q-Driver-l-Racine-Wisconsin-jobs.html

Most CBL licensed drivers get 13+ hours for an easy job. Plus health benefits, insurance and etc. Hell even retirement benefits.

It isn't being naive cause that's what happened Ary.

When everyone couldn't go where they wanted to or even get to work cause of the buses. They called up city hall + the third party people who run it. Thus being they were forced to roll over or face problems with the people.

Hell in the article the Mayor even stepped in to negotiate so he would look good to the people so when his term is up, maybe get more votes.

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-J6OCW8GP8EY;_ylc=X3oDMTEwYzlzMG9kBF9TAzM5NjUxMDMzN QRjYXQDVFJBBHBjb2RlAzUwNTg0?source=partner&scode=50584

I assume by school bus driving(Cause that is teamsters owned too.). That's 16 bucks an hour, paid holidays, benefits, 401k plan and etc.

Come on Ary, you can not tell me what their pay is and how much they actually have to 'work', the job is pretty comfy to me.

Once again I will state and will keep rallying that it be owned by the city and not subsidized so this will never happen again. I've already sent my letter to city hall and hope it'll keep going.

[Arainach]

When everyone couldn't go where they wanted to or even get to work cause of the buses. They called up city hall + the third party people who run it. Thus being they were forced to roll over or face problems with the people.And that's the way the world works. Particularly in American business culture. Step over whoever you need to to get done what needs to be done.

Also, given what it takes to get a bus/limo driving license and given how I know a lot of people treat bus drivers, I'd hardly call $16/hr comfy or excessive.

[Seegtease]

What, do you wipe your butt with hundred dollar bills? I'd be very comfy at 16 dollars an hour full time.

[SpaceProg]

He means what they get paid vs. how they're treated. Pretty much any 'service' job will get you treated like el crappo.

Still, I'd like to have a job that pays that much... starting? Nice... Around here, that's next to unheard of other than in the mills.

Edit: Of course, you also have to factor in cost of living and the like... it may not be worth it after all, depending on how much day to day living costs in WA, or even in that particular part of WA.

[deathofcheese]

I don't think $16/hr is that cushy. I doubt that drivers get a full 40-hour week in, but even then, that wage is 16 x 40 = 640 (before taxes). If you live in the city, chances are that you're paying a lot more for stuff (housing, food, gas, entertainment, etc.) than people a little further out. Plus, if you've got a sizable family (3+ members), unless there are other sources of income, you're not going to afford a whole lot. Especially if you have to pay insurance, buy stuff for your kids, save/pay for college. Isn't $16/hr something like $32,000, or less, a year? That's not a whole lot.

I'm not trying to begrudge someone their right to strike for better conditions/benefits/pay, but I still think that unions are some of the worst organizations that are supposed to help people. Even worse than insurance companies.

[Seegtease]

Well, where I live, being married and with a child and living comfortably, I know for a fact from experience I can live comfortably fulltime at 12.50 an hour, and still put money into savings, and have internet, cell phones, and play pay for play online games and drink lattes. If you don't think that's comfy, you need to get out and see the reality that is a lot of the populations' lives.

[Killer_Man_]

Death: It's called living within your means... Sadly this sunday most of the bus drivers are not going to vote yes for the new agreement. It's as well they are disagreeing with the whole fact that they want to make the dispatchers non-union so they can discipline the drivers more often. Cause there are a lot of RUDE BUS DRIVERS and a lot of good ones. And there is one driver who likes to speed and all.

They don't like the idea cause someone could really discipline them instead of the dispatcher worrying about, 'ratting out union workers' or just ignore the legit complaints.

Rarely do I see anyone who drive the bus get mistreated unless it's by young people. By young I mean anyone who is 16 or less.

When I had the job for 13 dollars an hour, I was living quite comfortable and could have lived in an apartment that was near that work place. Walk to work, work 3rd shift and etc. Sadly I wasn't happy with the job due to the boss.

If I had that job still, I'd be able to move out, still afford internet, job benefits, my bills and etc.

It would have been quite cushy.


If you don't like the job, get out. Most of the drivers who I talk to a lot, work 40+ hours(8 hours shifts). 640 without taxes, it'd be about 480-550ish by WI standards.

[Gio Takahashi]

The bus system here is owned by the city, and most of the bus drivers are generally nice, and a lot of them likes to talk.

[Killer_Man_]

Sadly mine is subsidized, though a lot of people are pressuring Becker to unsubsidize it.

[deathofcheese]

Death: It's called living within your means... Sadly this sunday most of the bus drivers are not going to vote yes for the new agreement. It's as well they are disagreeing with the whole fact that they want to make the dispatchers non-union so they can discipline the drivers more often. Cause there are a lot of RUDE BUS DRIVERS and a lot of good ones. And there is one driver who likes to speed and all.

They don't like the idea cause someone could really discipline them instead of the dispatcher worrying about, 'ratting out union workers' or just ignore the legit complaints.That's one big reason why unions are evil. You can't do anything with union members for fear of pissing off the union. You can't change their job a bit, you can't rearrange schedules, you can't fire or lay off people, you can't change their wage, nothing. Just about the only thing you can do is continuously improve conditions (whether you can afford to or whether they deserve it or not) to keep them happy. Most of the time, it goes above and beyond what's normally considered reasonable and often gets into the ludicrous.

As far as 'living within your means', I understand full well what that means, having had to do that for the last 21 years. That wage, though, isn't cushy by a long shot, which is what I was trying to get across. It may be enough for a smallish family to live comfortably if they don't have many expenses, but not everybody knows how to or feels like they should 'live within their means'. They shouldn't be getting raises simply because what they make isn't enough to suit their living style. They should be getting raises for doing their job well or to help with rising cost-of-living.

[Killer_Man_]

That's one big reason why unions are evil. You can't do anything with union members for fear of pissing off the union. You can't change their job a bit, you can't rearrange schedules, you can't fire or lay off people, you can't change their wage, nothing. Just about the only thing you can do is continuously improve conditions (whether you can afford to or whether they deserve it or not) to keep them happy. Most of the time, it goes above and beyond what's normally considered reasonable and often gets into the ludicrous.

Indeed, cause I remember there was one driver who was fired for driving recklessly, and one I had reported many times for speeding down a busy street then honking when someone turned into the road and was going way slower than he was.(No he wasn't cut off)

Then the union was like, rofl u cantz do tat! And they rehired him.

That is why they wanted to make the dispatchers, management. Which it really should be. Every place I know that has a union, the management is non-union so they can discipline and fire people for that reason.


As far as 'living within your means', I understand full well what that means, having had to do that for the last 21 years. That wage, though, isn't cushy by a long shot, which is what I was trying to get across. It may be enough for a smallish family to live comfortably if they don't have many expenses, but not everybody knows how to or feels like they should 'live within their means'. They shouldn't be getting raises simply because what they make isn't enough to suit their living style. They should be getting raises for doing their job well or to help with rising cost-of-living.



If I made that money, and since my girl friend has finished her law degree. We'd be pretty set, see the problem is. Does that cost-of-living include the sheer fact that most americans have credit cards and sometimes use them for 'entertainment' reasons instead of emergencies? After I got my new comp which I used two credit cards and paid good amount to both of them as I did it. I only owe like 300 on each card(500 max limit on both of them.) and still paying them off. Which will be paid off fully by the end of the year.

The only reason most struggle is cause of their credit cards I bet.

16 bucks is cushy in WI, especially at full time. If their lover makes good money too, that's even better.

[deathofcheese]

cush?y [koohttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngsh-ee] ?adjective, cush?i?er, cush?i?est. Informal.
1. involving little effort for ample rewards; easy and profitable: a cushy job. I understand that $16/hr at full weeks all year can make for comfortable living, especially in WI. It'd be even more comfortable in SC since we have one of the lowest cost-of-living in the country and low personal taxes to boot. However, just because it's comfortable doesn't make it cushy.

Getting paid $200/hr to tell people their problems when you have no clue what it is that they actually do, in addition to getting Mondays and Fridays off for travel and having accomodations and rentals and meals paid for by whatever company you're currently 'working' for is what I would call cushy.

(Yes, I know people that fit the above description. In the company I work for, before the acquisition by Kongsberg, corporate-level Teleflex was almost lousy with people like that. Even after the drastic weeding out of that kind of parasite, there's still a couple that managed to actually produce enough results to show the big wigs that they're useful. What a racket.)

[Killer_Man_]

Little effort as in drive a bus around, that's simple. :\ At least in my opinion.

[Bloodcinder]

Don't underestimate maintaining a bus route. I guarantee you none of us could hop in a bus, start driving, and manage to not kill or maim somebody. Not only is driving something that big simple unwieldy and out of our skill zones, but there's a lot of training and management that goes into it.

[Killer_Man_]

Don't underestimate maintaining a bus route. I guarantee you none of us could hop in a bus, start driving, and manage to not kill or maim somebody. Not only is driving something that big simple unwieldy and out of our skill zones, but there's a lot of training and management that goes into it.

With training it's simple, the buses I've notice have no tail whip and is like a solid piece of steel with air brakes. With proper training, anyone could drive those buses.

[Bloodcinder]

With proper training anybody can do anything. It's not so "simple" without that training. Don't underestimate the effort required in being a bus driver.

[Gio Takahashi]

It's not just the bus driving but it's havign to deal with tons of people every day, and pretty much ANYONE? I've seen a large variety of people, including assholes and idiots that bus drivers have to put up with. Imagine doing that 8 or more hours a day, everyday, putting up with those kind of people. I've seen all sorts of things that sometimes make me feel bad for the bus drivers, because they have to put up with them.

It's not just about driving the bus KM, it's having to deal with a VERY wide variety of people as fast as possible, especially during the rush hour.

So for you to say Little effort as in drive a bus around, that's simple. :\ At least in my opinion.

Just astounds me, because there's no way that the phrase "little effort" should even belong with "bus driving"

[deathofcheese]

With training you can be a nuclear technician, but even then I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's a cushy job or an effortless job.

You may not realize this so much if you don't drive yourself, but even operating a normal-sized car in a city can be a pain and tough at times. Now think that you're operating something five or ten times that size with not-so-good acceleration, turning radius, and many times more momentum (mass x velocity) which means much greater braking distance. Add to this having to navigate through traffic, dealing with not-always-nice people, keeping to a schedule and dealing with unruly people that blame you for making them late and it becomes much more than just an effortless job.

[Killer_Man_]

Perhaps I am underestimating it but I just find the hardness of the job to pay rate = cushy to me.

Gio: Those people are nothing, I deal with rich elderly, I've seen worse.

[Gio Takahashi]

Perhaps I am underestimating it but I just find the hardness of the job to pay rate = cushy to me.

Gio: Those people are nothing, I deal with rich elderly, I've seen worse.

Heh, are you sure about that, I said a wide variety, and I do mean wide variety, including rich elderly.

[Seegtease]

Bus driving can be a really tough job. I don't do it, but it's pretty obvious that it's hard, and I'm not even sure I'd be cut out for the job. Some bus drivers sure can be rude though. They really should fire rude bus drivers. It is a people job to a degree, after all. I know that has nothing to do with the topic but oh well.

[Gio Takahashi]

Well they're probably rude due to the stress and developed zero-tolerant attitude toward passengers. They shouldn't fire just because they are rude, as long as they do the job, they're fine.

[Killer_Man_]

Bus driving can be a really tough job. I don't do it, but it's pretty obvious that it's hard, and I'm not even sure I'd be cut out for the job. Some bus drivers sure can be rude though. They really should fire rude bus drivers. It is a people job to a degree, after all. I know that has nothing to do with the topic but oh well.


Sadly, as I stated before up there.

rofl u cantz do tat!

You have to have a 'big big big reason' to fire someone, especially since the dispatcher who can discipline the drivers IS UNION. It should be management and should be non-union... Even then with the way most unions are, you have a very damn good reason to fire, written up and etc.

[Gio Takahashi]

I think it really depends on who owns the busing line. In lee county, the city owns the busing lines, and are funded by the city, but if people have problem, just complain to the busing line through the city.

One time the bus driver completely skipped a stop and there were people, and didn't even try to stop, and she knew about it (I could tell, and it's IMPOSSIBLE Not to miss the people there). One of them tried to wave them down, hoping to get her attention. It really bothered me, so I went to the site and emailed them, and noticed that the city commissioner deals with it.

[Seegtease]

Well they're probably rude due to the stress and developed zero-tolerant attitude toward passengers. They shouldn't fire just because they are rude, as long as they do the job, they're fine.

There are plenty of jobs that don't require being around the public. If you want to be rude, get one of those. I don't care if your job is stressful. You can't excuse bad behavior.

[Arainach]

Zeit, I'd approve of that only if bus drivers were given far greater leeway to not let people ride their bus or to force them off. It's the same thing with any service/retail industry - I truly believe that "the customer is always right" is possibly the most harmful phrase ever to reach American culture. It's bred an entire generation of people who believe they're entitled to treat everyone else like dirt, think only of themselves, and not feel bad about it. Bring back shame and responsibility.

[Seegtease]

Granted.

Working with people, I too hate the "customer is always right". I've worked somewhere where one of my co-workers ended up being tricked (stupid) into giving a customer too much change (like 50 bucks almost), and it ended up being because of this policy in the end. The customer is NOT always right. In fact, the customer is usually wrong, I've discovered. Be kind, but for crying out loud, be smart.

[Gio Takahashi]

There are plenty of jobs that don't require being around the public. If you want to be rude, get one of those. I don't care if your job is stressful. You can't excuse bad behavior.

You can't excuse customer's bad behavior's as well. Try having a job at a deli shop, where you deal with tons of rude customers. Am I suppose to be nice to them anyway? How about customers who tried to claim that I overcharged them? One of the stupidest experience is when two guys came to the shop at 10 minutes before closing, ordered the biggest, most expensive sandwich they could buy, with tons of 'extras', Since I was the only one doing the sandwiches, I made the sandwiches exactly as they said, I even repeated what they wanted so that I would hear them correctly, then I ranged them up exactly as they ordered, and they had all the gaul to try to claim that I overcharged them, I proved to them that I didn't showed them what they ordered and how much each extras cost on the menu, and they still wouldn't give up, on top of that, apparently, as far as they are concern publix's rule of overcharging applies to quiznos, and I was suppose to give them their sandwiches for free. I basically said "No, I showed you what you ordered and proved that I did not overcharge, and no, we're not Publix. Bottom line is, either you pay for your sandwiches and leave, or I keep the sandwiches and you guys leave." they finally gave up and left. It's this situation where the phrase "The customer is always right" is bullshit.

But a sandwich shop is nothing compared to bus driving, where you deal with thousands of people, where a tenth of them will likely be assholes. There are a lot of bus drivers that I respect for keeping their cheerful and friendly personality here. Maybe there's no excuse for rude bus drivers, but there's definitely no excuse for rude passengers.

[Seegtease]

I work at a restaurant myself, so I'm not at all ignorant of the reality of working with the public. Still doesn't give you the right to be rude. You wanna be rude, move to New York. I think that's a job requirement at some places there.

[Bloodcinder]

I think it's safe to say that rudeness is not justified for any human being. END.