[OOC] Into the Unknown

[Seegtease]

It would seem I lost the information on my character, as well. Not sure how. Re-PM please.

[chefTENGU]

Sent. If you need the character profile too, I have that as well.

[Seegtease]

Yeah, much like KM, I seem to have lost everything. Don't know how I managed that. I remember the gist of it, but it'd be nice to see my exact words.

[Killer_Man_]

Yeah, that happened cause I got full during one of our take over the europe games.

[chefTENGU]

(I probably should have started this on a weekend).

I'm still waiting on one reply, then the thread opens.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Seegtease

Yeah, much like KM, I seem to have lost everything. Don't know how I managed that. I remember the gist of it, but it'd be nice to see my exact words.

Same here. Once I get all that and re-familiarize myself, I'll be ready to start, I think.

[chefTENGU]

Ok, main thread is now open, have fun with some introductions if you feel like.

DoC, you'll be joining the thread a bit later, so for now you'll be keeping with the one-on-one with me via PM.

[Killer_Man_]

BRING IT ON!

[Seegtease]

Either chef or Z can answer: Can Khal tell Z's character is an elf (or half elf?) currently?

[Killer_Man_]

An elf more than likely, not half elf. But he might be able to tell. Depending on how clothed Z's char is.

[Seegtease]

Well, his response is dependent on it.

[Killer_Man_]

Yes it is because you might be able to tell he's an elf but to what degree you don't know depending on how 'clothed' he is.

[chefTENGU]

You can tell by looking at Valandil that he's got mixed blood (Z posted a picture at the bottom of page 2).

The ears paired with those eyes and facial hair is a dead giveaway.

I think the more important question is whether it would make much difference to Khal how eleven Valandil is or simply that he is elven.

[chefTENGU]

DoC, you're officially in the main thread now. Feel free to post an introduction to everyone else.

[Z]

I've got a question and a comment.

1. Q: Is In-Character private communication allowed?

If so, how do we need to go about that? For instance do we need to send the message to chef and have him forward it on or do we handle it via PMs and report it to chef or what?

If not, darn, hehe

2. I just want to nip this one in the booty cuz it's been irking me. Let's all keep in mind that just because a player can read the thoughts of other peoples' characters does not mean said player's character can read their thoughts.

For instance, there has been some silent prejudice against Orcs from Seeg's and my character and yet Krushak somehow seems fully aware of it. If it's not spoken or physically indicated, keep in mind that it is not known. Krushak may be slightly suspicious of ongoing prejudice from the elf and the dwarf, but he certainly shouldn't be sure of it based on a 2 minute conversation with the commander.

As another basic example, if Val at some point thinks I'M GOING TO KILL THAT DARN LEPRECHAUN but makes no physical or spoken indication to that effect, the leprechaun should be completely unaware of this thought (not that there's a leprechaun, but you get what I'm saying).

[chefTENGU]

1. Yes. However, I ask that all private communication be relayed through me (via PM), as I will have to weigh the chances others might have to detect said communication.

2. Mmhm. I was originally going to try and limit what sorts of things you should be posting about, but really, that would sort of kill the fun in the writing.

Everyone just needs to keep the difference between player knowledge and character knowledge in mind, and we shouldn't have too many problems.

[Killer_Man_]

Originally Posted by Z

I've got a question and a comment.

1. Q: Is In-Character private communication allowed?

If so, how do we need to go about that? For instance do we need to send the message to chef and have him forward it on or do we handle it via PMs and report it to chef or what?

If not, darn, hehe

2. I just want to nip this one in the booty cuz it's been irking me. Let's all keep in mind that just because a player can read the thoughts of other peoples' characters does not mean said player's character can read their thoughts.

For instance, there has been some silent prejudice against Orcs from Seeg's and my character and yet Krushak somehow seems fully aware of it. If it's not spoken or physically indicated, keep in mind that it is not known. Krushak may be slightly suspicious of ongoing prejudice from the elf and the dwarf, but he certainly shouldn't be sure of it based on a 2 minute conversation with the commander.

As another basic example, if Val at some point thinks I'M GOING TO KILL THAT DARN LEPRECHAUN but makes no physical or spoken indication to that effect, the leprechaun should be completely unaware of this thought (not that there's a leprechaun, but you get what I'm saying).

Z, I made no notion of him knowing but come on. Krushak is a half-orc. He is already going to assume that there is going to be tension before there is. Dwarfs and elves already dislike orcs and dislike half-orcs regardless of the circumstance. Krushak can automatically assume by the way Khal and as well your character's reaction. Especially by the Wolf's reaction that there is going to be tension. If you feel like I'm being too omni-potent then I do apologize but really, due to the backstory of my character which you don't know either ICly or OOCly. I would have to explain that no one really likes half-orcs. Humans are the only species that don't mind them(usually) and Half-Elves are usually more sympathic to half-orcs due to the fact that Elves and as well humans tend to not accept half-elves all too well.

Sorry but what I have said still stands and I will continue to type like that with Krushak assuming every new person is going to hate him for one reason or the next before he even 'knows' that they have a problem with him.

If someone didn't have a problem with Krushak, one would have been more open and kind. Hell, Khal didn't even provide two minute conversation thus being he can sense some hostility due to being half-orc(possibly because of him being a half-orc).

It's not hard to tell if someone has a problem with either.

Oh and to prove a point.

Khal turned his head to look at Krushak for a moment, looking directly into his eyes for a good few seconds with a look of irritation

One can already tell that Khal may dislike Krushak, either because he's a half-orc or because Krushak tried to talk to him.

Fenris, the sizable black wolf to Val's left, let out a low growl as he eyed Krushak.

One can assume that with your wolf growling or showing some sort of protection for it's master that one may or may have hunted orcs.

Sure, this is more than likely too much assumption but really, I have played it right.

[Z]

In your quote, you left out the very next sentence.

Fenris, the sizable black wolf to Val's left, let out a low growl as he eyed Krushak. With a small gesture, Valandil silenced his beastly companion.

If anything, Krushak should have deduced that the wolf had a prejudice. There is no physical evidence anywhere to imply the half-elf does. Feel free to double-check me.

He is already going to assume that there is going to be tension before there is. Dwarfs and elves already dislike orcs and dislike half-orcs regardless of the circumstance.

If Krushak is paranoid that everyone automatically hates him, he has made no mention of it in terms of the squire, the Elven commander, or the Elven Sarggeas. You've only noted it for Val and Khal which clearly seems to be influenced from character-thought rather than physical proof or blanket paranoia.

Here is the only thing that Val actually said in that entire post:

While I don't know why we were called here I take it as no coincidence that we are all here at once. I would not be surprised if our futures are to be bound for at least a little while and, if such is the case, it probably wouldn't hurt to know what to call eachother. I am Valandil Coamenel and this is the mighty Fenris.

And here is the immediate response from Krushak:

Yes, it seems that we might have to work together so I hope that being half-orc won't be an issue.

Nowhere in Val's statement is any hint of prejudice. In fact, he silenced the wolf which would imply disapproval of the wolf's actions. It's only in "character-thought" that I mentioned that Val didn't actually disapprove. Then, to follow up, there is this that I said in "character-thought":

The Dwarf and the Orcish fellow could provide the muscle necessary for any conflicts that may arise, while Val and Fenris could be the compass for which they travel.

To which the immediate reply was:

So then, I assume you'll be the guide and Khal and I will dismantle anything that gets in our way. That is, if that is what you two are thinking.

You flat-out noted that you were reading a thought. You can't make the case that you weren't using player knowledge to influence character knowledge because it is crystal clear that you were. Right now, it's not really a big issue but, for future reference, we just want to be sure that it ends here.

You're correct; I don't know Krushak's background but if Krushak is going to be paranoid about everyone, make him paranoid about everyone, not just Val and Khal. Make him paranoid about the commander and the mission. Make him paranoid about the squire and his purpose. When you only make him paranoid about the two characters who've had "thought-prejudice" it's clear you're using player knowledge to influence character knowledge and that's no fun.

[Killer_Man_]

Originally Posted by Z

In your quote, you left out the very next sentence.

If anything, Krushak should have deduced that the wolf had a prejudice. There is no physical evidence anywhere to imply the half-elf does. Feel free to double-check me.

Pehraps but usually it'll only due that due to the fact that the master may or may not trained it.

If Krushak is paranoid that everyone automatically hates him, he has made no mention of it in terms of the squire, the Elven commander, or the Elven Sarggeas. You've only noted it for Val and Khal which clearly seems to be influenced from character-thought rather than physical proof or blanket paranoia.

I said what I said about the half-orc to the dwarf. Come on, you are paraphrasing. I even mentioned it and if I did not say I do apologize.

You flat-out noted that you were reading a thought. You can't make the case that you weren't using player knowledge to influence character knowledge because it is crystal clear that you were. Right now, it's not really a big issue but, for future reference, we just want to be sure that it ends here.

Really? REALLY?! Fuck that, how was he reading the thought? You ever think that perhaps two character may or may NOT have the same idea? Come on now, Khal looks like a fighter from what was presented and your character looks like a woodsman especially with a pet.

Don't give me this crap about how I was using OOC information for IC.

You're correct; I don't know Krushak's background but if Krushak is going to be paranoid about everyone, make him paranoid about everyone, not just Val and Khal. Make him paranoid about the commander and the mission. Make him paranoid about the squire and his purpose. When you only make him paranoid about the two characters who've had "thought-prejudice" it's clear you're using player knowledge to influence character knowledge and that's no fun.

No, you are assuming I am using character knowlage. I am making him paranoid about both your characters cause they have shown it. Not to mention the fact that he's been part of the army all his life. I doubt he'd have a problem with a commander who has shown no problems.

The three people there have shown no problems.

If you really feel this way, I might as well up and stop because of the fact that you assuming that I was using player knowlage when I wasn't. You assume that Krushak can't assume that Khal can use weapons and the half-elf with a wolf PET wouldn't be a good woodsman/recon?

If you really are getting all uppity about it, I don't know what to tell you.

You flat-out noted that you were reading a thought. You can't make the case that you weren't using player knowledge to influence character knowledge because it is crystal clear that you were. Right now, it's not really a big issue but, for future reference, we just want to be sure that it ends here.

He can't think out loud and say, you know, I was thinking this, were you all thinking the same? Seriously, I'm more annoyed than anything right now.

[Seegtease]

I'm gonna defend KM for a bit.

For one, his tension towards Khal and Val is actually pretty well founded. Neither of us have received him as cheerfully as he attempted to do for us. Khal can definitely be seen to already not like Krushak much, very clearly. Val, maybe not as much, but I think it's reasonable for him to think you might be the same way.

As for why Krushak isn't suspicious of the commander: he has no reason to be, and some reasons to not be. For one, they asked him to come for a special assignment, so he already knows they regard him as special. Further, they're professional and have likely been trained to put aside racial prejudices, considering their line of work. And it's reasonable to assume that Krushak is aware of this, and they respect him despite his race.

So as for the whole tension Krushak has between Val and Khal, it's justified, and so is the lack of tension between Krushak and the commander.

However, I'm gonna have to side with Z in comparing Val's thought:

The Dwarf and the Orcish fellow could provide the muscle necessary for any conflicts that may arise, while Val and Fenris could be the compass for which they travel.

With Krushak's words:

So then, I assume you'll be the guide and Khal and I will dismantle anything that gets in our way. That is, if that is what you two are thinking.

They're a little too close and KM, surely you must admit that Val's thought did indeed influence what you typed. It's not a big deal, but you really have to be careful about stuff like that in an RP like this.

[Killer_Man_]

Perhaps that part did but *shrugs*.

[Z]

Like I said...

Right now, it's not really a big issue but, for future reference, we just want to be sure that it ends here.

[Killer_Man_]

Yes but it hasn't nor will ever be a big problem. Especially like Seeg said and I agree, Khal and Val hasn't done much infront of him nor have talked to him as open as he was thus being there could be some tension.

[deathofcheese]

What probably needs to be done is for people to refrain from doing so much inner dialogue unless it's absolutely necessary for others to know. I understand how it might be necessary for some of our previous RPs, but for a D&D game, the story is mostly provided by direct interaction and vocal exchange, with the DM filling in unspoken exposition here and there as necessary. In my experience, there really hasn't been a lot of need to be subtle about nuances of character development when everyone's just blunt about their feelings in their dialogue.

[chefTENGU]

Time for a group hug, everyone.

To be perfectly honest, nothing about the conversation and interaction struck me as being outside the bounds of what is permissible.

Krushak, based solely on his race, would have good reason to assume that a stranger is likely prejudiced against him, even if that stranger makes an effort to be polite. He'd also have reason to assume he's wanted for running through and killing dudes.

Bear in mind, we're talking about a nearly 7' tall musclebound and armored guy with a double axe strapped to his back. He's probably not going to be conducting a lot of diplomacy.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:20 ----------

Originally Posted by deathofcheese

What probably needs to be done is for people to refrain from doing so much inner dialogue unless it's absolutely necessary for others to know. I understand how it might be necessary for some of our previous RPs, but for a D&D game, the story is mostly provided by direct interaction and vocal exchange, with the DM filling in unspoken exposition here and there as necessary. In my experience, there really hasn't been a lot of need to be subtle about nuances of character development when everyone's just blunt about their feelings in their dialogue.

The reason I was thinking about leaving out all the inner monologue for characters in this game.

I still don't think it'll be that big a deal, though. If it becomes a problem, then I'll impose a "only what we can see" rule.